Project paralysis

[tbdana]

I'm two years back from a 30-year break from music, and I'm still on the path to figuring out what my space in the musical universe is. Last year, at one year back, I did a project of recording a few tunes with friends to measure my progress and hold myself accountable. It went way better than I'd imagined, and it even morphed into a CD.



Now I'm looking for another project. I want to do something purposeful this time. Something that represents the best I can do. Something that others will listen to. Something that gives me a place somewhere in the constellation of modern trombone players.

But I'll be darned if I can figure out what to do, what direction to take, or how to get there. Every time I think of going one direction, reasons not to do it pop up and different ideas for other directions overwhelm me into being paralyzed and making no progress whatsoever.

For those of you who may have made a similar journey with projects and finding your place in the musical pantheon, how do you figure out who you are? How do you get from where you stand to the right place to be? Is it all random? Trial and error? Or is there a way to figure out the right direction and right things to do to get there?

It's kind of like writer's block, but more like vision block.

[ryant]

I have some ideas, but they are rather personal. I'd be happy to chat with you in a DM if you are interested.

[tbdana]

I have some ideas, but they are rather personal. I'd be happy to chat with you in a DM if you are interested.

Absolutely! Let 'er rip!

[ghmerrill]

it even morphed into a CD.

Wait! People still make CDs? If I had to play a CD it would probably take me half an hour just to find the external CD drive that's lying around here.

This CD fixation may be your whole problem.

[mbarbier]

it even morphed into a CD.

Wait! People still make CDs? If I had to play a CD it would probably take me half an hour just to find the external CD drive that's lying around here.

This CD fixation may be your whole problem.

With younger folks the pendulum is swinging back towards physical media for sure. I put out projects (and sell) CDs and vinyl , but cassettes are honestly what sells the best. They pretty much always sell out.
It's wild.

The blank part of a project is really brutal - I find sometimes structuring a project towards a specific place I want to do it can help a lot.

[tbdana]

it even morphed into a CD.

Wait! People still make CDs? If I had to play a CD it would probably take me half an hour just to find the external CD drive that's lying around here.

This CD fixation may be your whole problem.

Honestly, I get a ton of requests for physical CDs. When my Tribute CD came out I didn't even own a CD player. Don't have a CD player for my stereo, don't have one on my laptop, nor one in my car. But I sell a lot of physical CDs. It's both older folks and young folks who buy them. In the middle, not so much.

Fixation??? Really????

[LeTromboniste]

Is calling an album a CD today (whether or not it is actually sold on a physical disc) so different than calling an album a record? (which they were still routinely called long after actual records had stopped being the main support...).

Back on topic, I have more projects idea than I'll ever be able to do in a lifetime. The ideas constantly pop up. Some of them stick or feel really particularly coherent, or originate from something that's very dear to me, and then I see a window of opportunity, and I go forward. I'm not sure it can work for me to do it the other way, seeing first that there's a window and that I want to do something and then look for an idea of what to actually do. At least, the few times I approached it that way, those projects didn't work out.

[tbdana]

Is calling an album a CD today (whether or not it is actually sold on a physical disc) so different than calling an album a record? (which they were still routinely called long after actual records had stopped being the main support...).

So, what should I call it? I'm from the olden times when we called it an album or a record. What are you kids calling it today?

Back on topic, I have more projects idea than I'll ever be able to do in a lifetime. The ideas constantly pop up. Some of them stick or feel really particularly coherent, or originate from something that's very dear to me, and then I see a window of opportunity, and I go forward. I'm not sure it can work for me to do it the other way, seeing first that there's a window and that I want to do something and then look for an idea of what to actually do. At least, the few times I approached it that way, those projects didn't work out.

My problem, I guess, is that I have a dozen things I'd like to do, but time/money for only one. So with all those ideas floating around, how does one percolate all the way up to the top and get done?

I think I'm going to narrow it down to jazz/popular/commercial music for the breadth of appeal and for comfort with changing things and doing things new or differently. But other than that, it feels like drop all the ideas in a hat and pick one at random, which is probably not the best way to solve this.

Watrous told me, "If you're going to ask people to come see you or to buy your record, you better make damn sure that you have something to say. And part of having something to say is that you have to entertain people. If you're not entertaining your audience, you're insulting them." And I guess I just can't seem to get past that part.

[NathanSobieralski]

but cassettes are honestly what sells the best. They pretty much always sell out.
It's wild.

That's nuts. I guess I need to dust off all the old cassette equipment I have lol.

[tbdana]

I'm going to add part of a conversation I had with someone else, because I think it gives me something to think about. I'll just add my part of the conversation. He talked about authenticity, and I said:

I think the word "authentic/authenticity" does a lot of heavy lifting there, and it's one I'm going to adopt and focus on. I take it as being true to oneself.

You mention being a technician. I'm one of those, I think. Or, at least, I have made a core philosophy of trying to play the entire instrument at a high level. Which brings me to the fact that my natural, core audience is probably other trombonists. One thing I've found is that no matter what music trombonists say they want to consume, when it actually comes to voting with their feet and going to hear someone, or voting with their dollars and buying an album, trombone players choose technique over art. They'll say they want gorgeous musicality, but what they spend their money to listen to is virtuosity. They want to hear something impressive. In essence, they want to hear someone do the things they wish they could do on the trombone, but cannot.

And that's a piss poor goal for a project. IMHO it's a circus act. It's great gymnastics and death defying licks, but it's not art. It's what people do instead of art.

On my album/CD/whatever, by far the track most listened to by trombonists is "La Zorra," simply because I play from a double-high A to a (false) low D, and rip off long 16th note sequences. Even though it's the least interesting tune musically, that's the one they actually listen to most.

So...how can I be authentic and true to myself, but give people the circus act they actually want to consume?

I dunno, but I'm grateful you used the term authenticity, because now that's what I'm going to ruminate on. Basically, to me that says, "Be who you are, no matter what." And that's probably good advice.

Now, who am I? LOL!

[ithinknot]

"If you're not entertaining your audience, you're insulting them."

There ought to be profound options in between but, granted, the trombone isn't necessarily the most obvious vehicle for that middle ground

My problem, I guess, is that I have a dozen things I'd like to do, but time/money for only one. So with all those ideas floating around, how does one percolate all the way up to the top and get done?

And the real answer, which is strongly related to your authenticity point. Of those dozen ideas, there are two basic categories. Imagine you wake up tomorrow and see that someone else has run with more-or-less one of those concepts; with some, you'd think "cool, that was a good idea and it'll be fun to see what they did with it"... and with one or two, you'd embarrass yourself with how childishly pissed you were that you didn't get round to it first.

Do that one

[VJOFan]

Do you write? I think you’ve earned your stripes and could do an album/record/cd/digital archive of music that is 100% your voice. That would be interesting.

[AndrewMeronek]

Now I'm looking for another project. I want to do something purposeful this time. Something that represents the best I can do. Something that others will listen to. Something that gives me a place somewhere in the constellation of modern trombone players.

Write a jazz suite about practicing law! Movements might include:

Discovery (samba)
Evidence (avant garde)
Judgement (ballad)
Research (minimalist cha-cha)

[mbarbier]

but cassettes are honestly what sells the best. They pretty much always sell out.
It's wild.

That's nuts. I guess I need to dust off all the old cassette equipment I have lol.

It's totally bonkers. I think I've put six projects out on cassette and only have personal copies left of all of them. It's wild.

[heldenbone]

After so many years, perhaps it's time for something outside your comfort zone - not jazz or commercial?

[bus2]

Thinking about ideas: What are the albums you listen to the most? Do trombone-centric recordings measure up to great art? I've gone through several "trombone jock" phases, but other than some of the early Lindberg albums, most brass recordings get one or two listens and then are dumped to the bottom of the CD pile.

An album like the Lyle Mays + Pat Metheny As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls or Mintzer's Incredible Journey have gone on repeat hundreds of times. An album like Rosolino's Turn Me Loose gets a few extra listens due to his interesting sounds and the addition of voice. Even a simple Basie album that they probably wrote and recorded in a weekend session like Basie Meets Bond catches my ear because the rhythm and simplicity are infectious (plus Al Grey lays it down!). Jessye Norman's Sony recording of Dido and Aeneas is another personal favorite that has burnt out several of my CD players over decades. That one stands out because of the recording texture and the transcendental compositions. Willie Colon with Hector Lavoe gets an instant "repeat until the laser burns through the disc" for me. Even on some of their cheesy tunes. When the good stuff hits, it is bliss like no other.

Thinking back, the thread of things I dig as a listener is:
-driving and grooving rhythm (simmering rhythm too)
-raw emotion (sometimes at the expense of cleanliness)
-simplicity

A world music recording that says something new is appealing. Familiar grooves with mind-blowing and unexpected combinations of real instruments. Richard Stoltzman did some things on clarinet that were pretty cool. I'm not sure a trombonist has done something similar. (And yes, I am in awe of all the many unique trombonists like Conrad Herwig, Ray Anderson, or Jimmy Knepper. People who have something to say that doesn't sound like anybody else.) Add some of the Mingus albums to my list of mega repeats. Great compositions, more than one melodic color to listen to, hard groove, and variety.

Just adding to this thread. Great respect to any artist who preserves their vision in amber for the future!

[tbdana]

Write a jazz suite about practicing law! Movements might include:

Discovery (samba)
Evidence (avant garde)
Judgement (ballad)
Research (minimalist cha-cha)

My spouse and I cracked up over this. Thanks for the laugh!

[tbdana]

After so many years, perhaps it's time for something outside your comfort zone - not jazz or commercial?

Having taken a 30-year pause, everything in the world is outside my comfort zone. I've really lost most of the opportunities and experiences I will ever have in life because of what I now feel was a stupid decision. I'd love to do something different, but I also want to do something that people will listen to, so it's a tough choice. I don't create for myself, I create for people. To me, music is not music until it is heard by others. So, a big priority for me is a positive answer to the question, "Will people want to listen to this?" And I don't have a good sense of that outside the mainstream genres.

[tbdana]

Great post, bus2. Very thought provoking. Thanks, just the kind of thought stimulator I was looking for.

Thinking about ideas: What are the albums you listen to the most? Do trombone-centric recordings measure up to great art? I've gone through several "trombone jock" phases, but other than some of the early Lindberg albums, most brass recordings get one or two listens and then are dumped to the bottom of the CD pile.

I'm not sure what a "trombone jock phase" is, but I probably live in that zip code. I listen to a lot of trombone-centric stuff.

Do they measure up to "great art?" I dunno. Probably not. And the more I try to figure out what "great art" means, the more elusive the answer becomes.

Besides, I'm not sure I'm out to paint the Mona Lisa. One of my criticisms of music is that the more it strives to be "great art," the less people like it. I think both classical and jazz died as popular idioms because the music evolved past the point where it was listenable for most people. I want my music to be accessible to people. I don't want people to have to work too hard to enjoy it.

(And yes, I am in awe of all the many unique trombonists like Conrad Herwig, Ray Anderson, or Jimmy Knepper. People who have something to say that doesn't sound like anybody else.) Add some of the Mingus albums to my list of mega repeats. Great compositions, more than one melodic color to listen to, hard groove, and variety.

The trombonists you list don't intimidate or discourage me, because I've reached the point where I feel like I have found my own voice and can hang with any of the conventional or unconventional players in my own way. But bringing Mingus into the mix just makes me want to roll up my tent and go home. LOL! Mingus was a genius. I'm just an idiot who forgot how to play music for 30 years. I have no hope of competing on the Mingus level.

So I'm left with either doing a "trombone-centric" project that has no potential to become "great art" and has inherent limits as to audience appeal, or try to break into the realm of general popularity with a trombone, something no one has been able to do in a very long time. Seems like a lose/lose situation.

The other alternative is occupying a "niche." Like your world music suggestion. Hm. Food for thought.

[hyperbolica]

We have a guy here who puts on a concert every now and then. He has several small groups play - a jazz combo, a blues singer, gospel choir, a trombone quartet... It turns out to be a memorable event because it's a range of music. Maybe you could just set up and play in a public park where people are going to be anyway. Maybe book a jazz festival. An agent might be a good place to start. I guess it depends on if you have arena aspirations or school auditorium aspirations.

[bus2]

Two quick tangents:

(Not aimed at anybody here--just a generalization of trombonedom ) Lots of people go through trombone jock phase--only listening to trombonists. In the orchestral world its important to sound like everyone else, and there is no escaping the amount of imitation it takes to get there. The downside is that there are way better musicians to listen to for artistic expression, and a trombone jock doesn't get past their own instrument. (Maybe like the big beer companies who try to create similar products to each other. The product ends up being bland, when the real good stuff can be found made by small craft brewers. Jazz offers more opportunity for being a craft brewer--individuality is valued more.)

The other thing that just hit me--most of the recordings that stand out involve more than one great artist. Not just good players, but heavy musicians who have something of their own to say. Their own personality comes through in a bigger project. Maynard Ferguson on a Perez Prado album. Anybody on Kind of Blue. Putting together an album with people who are better than just good players, but who have their own recognizable voice and then putting it in a big mix sounds exciting.

Steve Turre's Rhythm Within album has some of that.

[VJOFan]

I don’t know about the idea of an artist worrying about pleasing an audience before finding that spark that lifts the artist’s own spirit. For some reason the first example that popped to the front of my mind was Any Worhol’s soup cans. I just can’t imagine that he thought, “Y’know, what people would really enjoy looking at is a giant, faithful representation of a Campbell’s soup label.” I expect he thought people were consuming all this advertising without even looking at it. They needed to see the world. His art slaps people in the face with stuff they’ve looked at incessantly without ever seeing.

I’ll reinforce what I said earlier in the thread. There isn’t much point in adding more stuff to the digital sonic file pile if the stuff being recorded doesn’t mean anything important to the artist. Record something that you wish existed and that you would want to listen to. The rest of the world will find it in time.

[JTeagarden]

Now I'm looking for another project. I want to do something purposeful this time. Something that represents the best I can do. Something that others will listen to. Something that gives me a place somewhere in the constellation of modern trombone players.

Write a jazz suite about practicing law! Movements might include:

Discovery (samba)
Evidence (avant garde)
Judgement (ballad)
Research (minimalist cha-cha)

Way too approachable, I might suggest:

Voir dire (frantic piece, quarter note = 300 bpm)
Res ipsa Loquitur (skat singing and multiphonics showpiece)
Habeus Corpus (gospel tune)
The Rule in Favor of Perpetuities (modal jazz piece, no bridge, goes on and on)



Ultimately, I think in terms of what music do you really connect with, what dead thing would you like to come alive again? I put together a reading band years ago to read charts mostly written by Gil Evans for Claude Thornhill, it was very satisfying to pull it off, Ryan Truesdell did something similar (and to a higher quality) with all Gil-Evans arrangements.

[tbdana]

It's the rule AGAINST perpetuities, but that list is hilarious!

If Gil Evans was around and would do my arrangements, my dilemma would be solved.

[JTeagarden]

It's the rule AGAINST perpetuities, but that list is hilarious!

I know, I even remember the damn thing: A jazz twist!

[Wilktone]

Now I'm looking for another project. I want to do something purposeful this time. Something that represents the best I can do. Something that others will listen to. Something that gives me a place somewhere in the constellation of modern trombone players.

I can't really tell you what project will fit you, but maybe considering some of your goals in more detail will help.

What makes a project "purposeful" to you? Rather than considering how others might view your completed project, what would make it meaningful to you?

I suspect that representing the best you can do will take care of itself, knowing how seriously you take making music and wanting to do your best.

But having a purpose to your project and representing your best doesn't necessarily mean others will want to listen to it. If popular appeal is important to you, maybe you need to consider sacrificing something else that makes it feel more meaningful.

Wanting to be recognized by other trombone players might also represent a compromise. Maybe your project ideas don't appeal to other trombone players so much. Maybe appealing to other trombonists involves sacrificing popular appeal.

What sort of project would you want to make, regardless of how you think anyone else would feel about it? Maybe it would be better to be true to your own artistic vision and then let other people enjoy it or not.

Dave

[EriKon]

Now I'm looking for another project. I want to do something purposeful this time. Something that represents the best I can do. Something that others will listen to. Something that gives me a place somewhere in the constellation of modern trombone players.

I can't really tell you what project will fit you, but maybe considering some of your goals in more detail will help.

What makes a project "purposeful" to you? Rather than considering how others might view your completed project, what would make it meaningful to you?

I suspect that representing the best you can do will take care of itself, knowing how seriously you take making music and wanting to do your best.

But having a purpose to your project and representing your best doesn't necessarily mean others will want to listen to it. If popular appeal is important to you, maybe you need to consider sacrificing something else that makes it feel more meaningful.

Wanting to be recognized by other trombone players might also represent a compromise. Maybe your project ideas don't appeal to other trombone players so much. Maybe appealing to other trombonists involves sacrificing popular appeal.

What sort of project would you want to make, regardless of how you think anyone else would feel about it? Maybe it would be better to be true to your own artistic vision and then let other people enjoy it or not.

Dave

This!!!