Help a jazzer out with classical notation and interpretation

[mgladdish]

I have a major gig coming up in the next few weeks which is a long way out of my wheelhouse. I've been booked as part of the jazz band to perform a premier of a piece for orchestra and jazz band. I'm a jazzer by trade and the piece has been written by a classical composer, so there are a couple of bits that aren't immediately familiar to me and I could do with a second/third opinion on how to do it appropriately.

The first is this gem (the 2nd bar):

We're at crotchet=96 for context.

Screenshot 2025-07-29 at 16.58.30.png

What's the best way to approach this - bear in mind I'm on a King 3b. I could attack the Bb and decrescendo rapidly to hide the join to the Bnat. Or agressively lip the Bnat down to Bb in 7th and bend it back in tune?

The second is the last bar on this line. We're crotchet=72, in 3/4.

Screenshot 2025-07-29 at 17.03.41.png

Should the tremelo be a slide gliss or a lip trill?

Thanks!

[mgladdish]

And yes, spare a thought for the person who had this part before me and wrote the notes in for the tenor clef bits so hard they couldn't be rubbed out fully before it was put back in the library.

[ithinknot]

1. Surely the priority would be to hit the accented Bb firmly and in tune, so just stay in first and lip it up to Bnat-ish as you decrescendo.

2. More likely a trill, but it's a question for the conductor. Depends who else has similar gestures; note the Tr./Archi. (You wonder if the composer really had an answer...)

[tbdana]

Just to make it more difficult for you, I'm going to go just the opposite of ithinknot.

On that first one, personally, I'd lip that B natural down (and extend the slide as far as I could) and then bring it up in tune. It's not hard to hit it in tune. Of course, ithinknot's way is just as good, better if you can't hit the Bb in tune in a long 7th. Either this composer just assumed jazz players would have an F attachment, or they don't know how to write for trombone, which is fairly common.

As for the second, I'm not sure but in my way of thinking if the composer had wanted a lip trill they would have marked it as a trill. And there is no place on the horn where you can lip trill a half-step from G to Ab. To me, this looks like they want some slide action, or it is just poor writing. But, yeah, it depends on what else is going on and what the conductor is looking for.

[EriKon]

Likely poor writing and not knowing about how a trombone works. I would go with a lip trill and whichever option of Dana or Ithinknot works better for you (lipping up or down).

[mgladdish]

1. Surely the priority would be to hit the accented Bb firmly and in tune, so just stay in first and lip it up to Bnat-ish as you decrescendo.

2. More likely a trill, but it's a question for the conductor. Depends who else has similar gestures; note the Tr./Archi. (You wonder if the composer really had an answer...)

Ah, I hadn't thought of lipping up from the Bb - that note is so firmly slotted I've never tried. I think this is the answer - I'll get a good solid tone and attack on the Bb, and the dodgy tone and volume nearing the Bnat will get lost in the dim. Even though my lipped-down Bb sounds a ton better than my lipped-up Bnat.

Just as well I don't have neighbours any more, the last 15 mins haven't sounded pretty.

[Fidbone]

Looks like it probably sounds …… Cobblers

[mgladdish]

1. Surely the priority would be to hit the accented Bb firmly and in tune, so just stay in first and lip it up to Bnat-ish as you decrescendo.

2. More likely a trill, but it's a question for the conductor. Depends who else has similar gestures; note the Tr./Archi. (You wonder if the composer really had an answer...)

What does the Tr./Archi. mean?

[ithinknot]

What does the Tr./Archi. mean?

Well, either it's just a helpful-ish signpost that the trumpets and strings have a cueable/noticeable entry at rehearsal mark 41, or it's also an indication that those are the groups that have the tremolo wiggles before you.You have the cues for parts numbered roman 4 thru 6, but without knowing who or what that is, it's hard to know how they might play it, so...

Don't worry about it. You're concerned with your lack of familiarity with the situation, but the composer is unlikely to have felt similarly burdened. If it's actually convincing and compelling stuff, then the intention will become clear in context and everything falls into place... and if it stinks, then the specifics won't particularly matter.

[mgladdish]

You're right, of course. We have just the one rehearsal the day before and I don't want to sound like a plonker the first time around

Aaah, I found a recording. I'd found this earlier but I was told we'd be premiering the work so assumed it was a different piece.



The glisses are barely glisses at all (6:08) and the trombones are lost in the mix for the tremolo bit (08:56)

[ithinknot]

Oh that's a good bit of fun. Enjoy! Proms?

[mgladdish]

Oh that's a good bit of fun. Enjoy! Proms?

Yes!

[TomInME]

Likely poor writing and not knowing about how a trombone works.

With bad writing, there are no wrong answers. If you can, find out how the composer wanted it to sound, and do your best to approximate that.

[Doug Elliott]

It's a very cool piece. But I wouldn't spend one second worrying about what the composer had in mind. It's just effects and it's lost in the mix so it doesn't matter.

[sf105]

Oh that's a good bit of fun. Enjoy! Proms?

Yes!

Impressive,

[AndrewMeronek]

That is a very fun piece to listen to!

That G-Ab trill is probably intended to be done using the F trigger.

[mgladdish]

Update: Thanks for all your tips, the gig went really well. Full orchestra plus big band plus organ makes one hell of a sound in the Albert Hall.

It went out live on Radio 3, available to listen here (presumably if you have a TV License) - it's the first piece in the programme: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002grg0