Bass Trombone mouthpiece for tuba player

[RyanStockhausen]

I double on bass trombone at my school, and I've been looking for a mouthpiece that works for me. I have a Yamaha Douglas Yeo mouthpiece, but it's too big for me and I can't get clear mid to high note from it. I've been looking at mouthpieces like Yamaha 59, but I don't know what to pick. I've also been trying to keep my budget below $100. any recommendations on what to get would be super helpful.

[hyperbolica]

For a tuba player coming over to bass bone, a Yamaha 59 would probably be fine. That's about a 1.25G, which would also be fine. There are dozens of mouthpieces in that range. You'll probably have to get something used to get into that price range. It might also be useful to know what kind of stuff you play mostly, and what mouthpiece you use on tuba.

[Kbiggs]

A few thoughts on bass mouthpieces in that range, at least mouthpieces I’ve tried. These are all out of your price range if new, but there are used ones on the market.

Hammond 20 BL and 20 BXL: about a 59/1.25 rim, with a large throat and open backbore. The BXL is deeper. I loved the basic sound I got on these, but I had difficulty getting notes to start on pitch (I’m not the only person who’s experienced this). The first 5% of the note was always uncertain, while the rest of the note was beautiful. Some people play them and love them, and sound gorgeous. YMMV.

Griego 1.25: these both feel larger than the specs list due to a medium-wide and well-rounded rim. The 1 is similar to a Doug Yeo in size, so perhaps the 1.25 might be more suitable. I had a different problem than I did with the Hammonds. It was hard to be efficient with these mouthpieces—I called them “lung suckers.” Again, some people play them and love them, and sound gorgeous. YMMV.

Ferguson JR: I regret selling this one. Rim size is between a 1.25 and a 1, but the rim is wide and round; very comfortable. It gives a nice, even sound in all registers (on a Bach 50B3), slightly brighter than Hammond or Griego. Very efficient, and easy to get a good sound.

Doug Elliott: a 112 rim, K or L cup, no. 8 or no. 10 shank; LB or XB series. You can’t go wrong, and it’s hard to do better than Doug’s mouthpieces.

Griego Markey 85: I use the G-M 87 right now and I like it a lot. Very even, consistent sound in all registers, characteristic dark and wide modern bass trombone sound. Again, you can’t go wrong. I sometimes switch between this and my DE mouthpiece.

Greg Black 1 1/4: Another good choice. A nice, dark and “present” bass mouthpiece—you can hear yourself really well, and you project well within the ensemble. Another excellent choice.

Hope this helps.

[Doug Elliott]

It's likely your problems start with approaching it from a tuba perspective.

[WGWTR180]

For a tuba player coming over to bass bone, a Yamaha 59 would probably be fine. That's about a 1.25G, which would also be fine. There are dozens of mouthpieces in that range. You'll probably have to get something used to get into that price range. It might also be useful to know what kind of stuff you play mostly, and what mouthpiece you use on tuba.

With all due respect in what world is a Yamaha 59 and 1 and 1/4 the same size? I have 3 sitting here that are all the size of my MV 1 and 1/2g pieces.

[ghmerrill]

It's likely your problems start with approaching it from a tuba perspective.

Yeah, I went through that. It took me months to be able to get a real trombone sound out of the trombone -- no matter what mouthpiece was in it. Now I'm totally focused on the bass trombone, and after more than 20 years have only a kind of "historic" small Eb tuba left.

If you want a relatively inexpensive bass trombone mouthpiece that should work -- certainly to start with, the Wick 0AL is pretty good. I use it as my "backup" (in case of some total disaster with my DE piece).

[hyperbolica]

With all due respect in what world is a Yamaha 59 and 1 and 1/4 the same size? I have 3 sitting here that are all the size of my MV 1 and 1/2g pieces.

I checked Doug's chart, and the 60 is similar to the 1g, the 59 is shown as slightly bigger than the 1.25., the 58 is the same as the 1.5 and the 57 is smaller than the 2. It might also be due to differences between the MV and modern sizes. I haven't tracked down any MVs to play on. Also I know charts / sizes aren't perfectly accurate, but that pretty much reflects my experience. I don't think I have any Bach mouthpieces here to measure anymore.

I have been playing other pieces recently, so maybe I'm misremembering something. It wouldn't be the first time (or the last, I'm sure).

Bill, if you're reading, could you give some feedback on the tr181 bracing question - specifically which ones to take out?

[Burgerbob]

Yamaha pieces are a size smaller than their schilke counterparts. 58 is 2G sized, 59 is 1.5.

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, I went through that. It took me months to be able to get a real trombone sound out of the trombone -- no matter what mouthpiece was in it.

I tried going the other way and just couldn't handle the transition. I was playing the tuba like a trombone, probably sounding like a sousaphone. Eventually i decided to stick to tbone and euph. The euph embouchure is different from the trombone, but close enough I can get away with faking it, for all the times I play euph in public.

[ghmerrill]

The euph embouchure is different from the trombone, but close enough I can get away with faking it, for all the times I play euph in public.

I am (was) quite good on tuba. I think I'm getting pretty good on bass trombone (though it's taken time and effort beyond what I expected). I never got beyond "moderately sucks at" on euphonium except in the low and middle registers -- which isn't exactly where the euph normally lives.

[heldenbone]

The Schilke Symphony Series M6.0 and M6.0d might have something for you. The M6.0d particularly connects the upper register to the rest of the range more easily than you would expect for a "60" sized mouthpiece, and the sound is far from woofy (for me).

[WGWTR180]

With all due respect in what world is a Yamaha 59 and 1 and 1/4 the same size? I have 3 sitting here that are all the size of my MV 1 and 1/2g pieces.

I checked Doug's chart, and the 60 is similar to the 1g, the 59 is shown as slightly bigger than the 1.25., the 58 is the same as the 1.5 and the 57 is smaller than the 2. It might also be due to differences between the MV and modern sizes. I haven't tracked down any MVs to play on. Also I know charts / sizes aren't perfectly accurate, but that pretty much reflects my experience. I don't think I have any Bach mouthpieces here to measure anymore.

I have been playing other pieces recently, so maybe I'm misremembering something. It wouldn't be the first time (or the last, I'm sure).

Bill, if you're reading, could you give some feedback on the tr181 bracing question - specifically which ones to take out?

Sorry I lost track of this with vacation. With all due respect Doug's chart is incorrect regarding the Yamaha 59 and 60 sizes. Please read what BurgerBob wrote about those pieces.

The 181. Let me revisit this and I'll get back to you. As I remember it's more of a trial and error situation but I'll get back with some thoughts.

[Doug Elliott]

Some of the sizes listed in my chart are based on individual examples from the 1980's or 90's and current production of those same mouthpieces may be different.

[marccromme]

See a listing of common trombone mouthpiece inner diameters here. In the approx size for a Yamaha 59 https://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/tro ... Shank=Bass

Notice that having the same rim diameter does not indicate that they will play or feel the same.

But its a usefully comparision functionality of this list if you want an overview of similar sized mouthpieces.

[WGWTR180]

See a listing of common trombone mouthpiece inner diameters here. In the approx size for a Yamaha 59 https://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/tro ... Shank=Bass

Notice that having the same rim diameter does not indicate that they will play or feel the same.

But its a usefully comparision functionality of this list if you want an overview of similar sized mouthpieces.

As a current 1 and 1/2G user here I can confirm that the Yamaha 59 is right in that camp from a feel standpoint.

[WGWTR180]

Bill, if you're reading, could you give some feedback on the tr181 bracing question - specifically which ones to take out?

I checked in with someone who played a 181 for years but has since sold it. He remembers a "trial and error process" when removing braces from the instrument. I'm sorry I cannot be more specific.

[hyperbolica]

I checked in with someone who played a 181 for years but has since sold it. He remembers a "trial and error process" when removing braces from the instrument. I'm sorry I cannot be more specific.

Well, thanks for looking into it. If anyone else has removed braces on a 181, I'd be eager to hear which ones you pulled and if you had some reason other than intuition.

I have to admit, I got a little impatient and just went ahead and removed 5 braces. I picked the braces based on just mechanically, which ones seemed unnecessary from a structural stability point of view.

When I first got the instrument, it was definitely all jammed up - you could tell it wasn't vibrating freely, and it felt bad to play. It felt dead, and there was no bark. After the braces were gone, it felt like a much better instrument. Most of my complaints about it were gone. The braces I removed are shown in pink in this image.



The bell is still big, which is always a pain with weight and just seeing around it. The ergo situation is funky. The 2nd lever has very long travel, and runs into most grips you would use with it. The slide is crazy wide, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just different.

But other wise, it gets a nice sound, the slide's great, and you can switch it between D and Eb very easily. It's good for a student, or a doubler or just a low budget horn. It's not up to my Kanstul or the 71h hybrid I recently sold, but it's about at the level of the 83h I had for a while.

The first bass bone I bought was a 181, and I just really hated it. But now I think I know why, in part, and it's a relatively easy fix. Looking back at my bass bone safari, I would have done well to have kept the Bach 50b2 that I tested. That had what I consider the "good" bass bone sound/feel. Not that I'm an expert at anything except what I like. That feel has been very elusive, even on otherwise very good bass bones.