Playing after back surgery.

[Kingfan]

Right now I'm playing a double valve bass as my primary horn. Tomorrow I'm having a spinal fusion plus several nerve decompression, as in they will grind away bone from the exit points out of the spine so they aren't pinched any more. Has anybody else had similar surgery? If so, how quickly were you able to recover/play your trombone?

[BGuttman]

Invest in an Ergo-Bone. You won't be weight bearing for a while.

[Kingfan]

Invest in an Ergo-Bone. You won't be weight bearing for a while.

Is that rec. based on experience with back surgery? I am allowed to lift 8-10 lbs. max once I feel up to it. My horn weighs less than that. Will I have problems sitting upright for long periods, and if so how long did/does that last? Any hints on how soon I will feel up to playing, period? Has anybody done rehearsals by having a willing volunteer schlep their horn for them? I weighed my horn in the case plus gig band and stand - 35 lbs.

[BGuttman]

Haven't had back surgery, but I had Baileyman toting my stuff to gigs. You'd be surprised how many folks will be willing to help.

[Posaunus]

Opinion based on watching a friend try to come back too soon following a back procedure:
Be patient. Don't rush it. Don't even think about lifting / playing your trombone until 2 weeks after you think you're ready. You'll have plenty of time to come back once you've really healed (about twice as long as the surgeon predicts).

[robcat2075]

...Tomorrow I'm having a spinal fusion plus several nerve decompression, as in they will grind away bone...

Ouch. I wish you a successful surgery and optimal recovery.

I am allowed to lift 8-10 lbs. max once I feel up to it.

I hope that's a temporary restriction, not a lifetime limit, right?

[boneagain]

Invest in an Ergo-Bone. You won't be weight bearing for a while.

Is that rec. based on experience with back surgery? I am allowed to lift 8-10 lbs. max once I feel up to it. My horn weighs less than that.

Have you asked the doctor SPECIFICALLY about holding a trombone up for any length of time?

Lifting 5 pounds of sugar off a counter and putting it on a shelf is one thing. Holding 5 pounds of trombone levered in front of your face with your elbow not able to support it near your ribs is quite another.

I suspect the "... once I feel up to it..." is because the doctor expects that you will NOT feel up to things that are injurious. But if the doctor does NOT know you intend to hold up a double rotor bass trombone, and does NOT know the horrible ergonomics of those things, the doctor might NOT know how much a trombonist will put up with just to be able to play.

Best bet: ask the doctor to hold up the horn. THEN ask how soon.

[Kingfan]

...Tomorrow I'm having a spinal fusion plus several nerve decompression, as in they will grind away bone...

Ouch. I wish you a successful surgery and optimal recovery.
Thanks! it went well, they say.

I am allowed to lift 8-10 lbs. max once I feel up to it.

I hope that's a temporary restriction, not a lifetime limit, right?

They say i'll be back to normal for a man my age when fully healed in 6 weeks, i'm worried about the interum.

[Kingfan]

I feel like crap., Lower back tensed up, one leg is hurting. Anybody gone thru something like this before?

[Posaunus]

Greg,

You ... must ... be ... patient.

And do whatever the doctor / physical therapists ask you to.

It ... takes ... time!

[mbarbier]

Just want to support what a lot of people are saying about taking it way slower than you think you should and that the guidelines are about what boneagain wrote- picking something up and putting it down- not the long term holding of an instrument.

my undergrad trombone teacher, Rick Stout, had an unfortunate shoulder injury shortly after i graduated from a slip and fall (Cleveland ice) and it knocked him off the horn about two years. I remember having a conversation with him when he first got the green light to play again and the physical therapists reaction to him saying he's taking it easy by only playing 15 minutes at a time. They were totally shocked- their notion of taking it easy is like 1-2 minutes at a time. The therapist used the comparison that the way we use our bodies to play instruments (for those few muscle groups) is basically demanding a Olympic level of fitness from them. It kinda blew my mind to hear it in those terms, even if a bit exaggerated. It asks a lot of your body to hold an object at shoulder height asymmetrically for long periods of time.

I really hope your recovery goes well- that sounds really frustrating and painful. Totally agree with others about an ergobone too.

[boneagain]

Here's a link to help understand where Mattie's source came up with "... Olympic level of fitness ..."

https://www.ergo.human.cornell.edu/DEA3 ... fting.html

When we feel great it is easy to forget that we OFTEN have the slide QUITE extended, and that all that weight is on either the right hand (bad form) or left hand (good form.) Good form means a significant asymmetric weight.

I decided to NOT try to run the cornell calculations.

But this kind of consideration is not to be taken for granted. In something as simple a a basic "squat with handweights" exercise there are experts who recommend extending both arms out in front and OTHER experts who CAN run those calculations and recommend against, especially for folks who already HAVE spine problems.

One thing we can count on: our bodies adapt. If you take up too much weight too soon you MAY not re-injure yourself. But if your body is not ready, muscles will adapt and pull things in new and usually not very constructive ways.

Training is exercise-specific. Walking does nothing to improve muscles for biking. Only a few biking muscles improve running.

Having an expert look at exactly what you will want to do when recovered and help you ease into it is the best bet for getting back and staying back. The ergobone idea may just get you part way there sooner, as long as that ALSO is shown to your doctor AND physical therapist.

Maybe a good time for buzzing and ear training exercises?

[Kingfan]

54 staples in my back. Two weeks after surgery: getting around is a challenge, let alone playing my bass tbone.

[robcat2075]

What is the recommended recovery routine for you? Are they telling you to keep moving?

[Kingfan]

What is the recommended recovery routine for you? Are they telling you to keep moving?

They are telling me to move using a walker unless it hurts, which it does a lot, and don't lift anything over 8 lbs. Not very much guidance, that. No set exercises, no PT. I have a post-op appt. next week, should get some answers then.

[greenbean]

Hang in there, Greg. It will be worth it in the long term!

Perhaps the coming weeks are a time for learning new tunes, jazz reading, music theory, or some other topic? Or scour the web and buy new horns!…

[Posaunus]

Hang in there, Greg. It will be worth it in the long term!

Or scour the web and buy new horns!…

What are you selling, Tom?

[Kingfan]

Hang in there, Greg. It will be worth it in the long term!

Perhaps the coming weeks are a time for learning new tunes, jazz reading, music theory, or some other topic? Or scour the web and buy new horns!…

learning new tunes, jazz reading, music theory? With the drugs I'm taking right now I barely have the mental powers to watch TV! Just sold a vintage 2B and bought a Holton euphonium, both arranged before the big day, so I'm good for now.

[greenbean]

What are you selling, Tom?

Me?!...

[robcat2075]

... With the drugs I'm taking right now...

What would those be?

[boneagain]

Probably best to keep greenbean's suggestion for that point between the taper-off of the drugs and the wisest point to hold a trombone out away from your core.

Adapting from Red Green, "Remember: we're pullin' for ya..."

Hang in there, Greg. It will be worth it in the long term!

Perhaps the coming weeks are a time for learning new tunes, jazz reading, music theory, or some other topic? Or scour the web and buy new horns!…

learning new tunes, jazz reading, music theory? With the drugs I'm taking right now I barely have the mental powers to watch TV! Just sold a vintage 2B and bought a Holton euphonium, both arranged before the big day, so I'm good for now.

[Kingfan]

... With the drugs I'm taking right now...

What would those be?

Oxycodone 5mg and orphenadrine citrate 100 mg. Also over the counter acetaminophen. Better living through chemistry, eh?

[BGuttman]

Recovery from this type of surgery is in two phases: First there is a healing phase and then there is a therapy stage. You are probably too soon after surgery for the PT -- at this stage putting strain on the repairs can do more harm than good. Use this time to work on non-horn activities. Maybe just buzz a bit lying in bed. Soon they'll unleash the PT and you will be able to get back into playing.

[timothy42b]

I'm off the ergobone finally after about two years of the left shoulder flaring up, two years in which I didn't miss a single day of the recommended exercises. Improvement happened faster after I improved enough to work out harder.

For an unrelated reason I increased my practice time and the first thing i noticed was that my back and core got tired before my chops. Playing trombone for an extended length of time is a serious strain on the core muscles.

[Kingfan]

I've been doing research. The surgeon did a whole lot more than originally planned - three fusions, multiple laminectomies, and nerve decompressions. I can't drive, do stairs, or lift more than a gallon of milk. The drugs got me loopy. Best I've been able to do is buzz the mouthpiece. It may take 2 to 4 months to recover. I have four bands waiting for me to come back. Hell, there goes the summer concert season!

[robcat2075]

Ouch... and double-ouch!

Has anyone asserted a specific cause for your back trouble or is it ascribed to age in general?

[Kingfan]

Ouch... and double-ouch!

Has anyone asserted a specific cause for your back trouble or is it ascribed to age in general?

Two places in my lower spine the vertebrae were not aligned on top of one another. The openings where the nerves to my legs came out were narrowed and had to be opened up. Plus, I had bad discs they replaced with "cages". They worked on me for five hours.

[Kingfan]

I'm finally off the opiates. I buzzed my bass tbone MP a few times last week. Today I played for half an hour, started with some of the easier Remington warmups then practiced some band music. Didn't want to push it since it was the first playing I've done in 6 weeks. My plan is to keep it at 30 minutes a day max for a while until I feel comfortable playing longer. I have four bands waiting for me to come back, but I'm going to start with the community band first since it is the only one who couldn't find a sub for me. Next is the big band that pays!

[KiaraEdward004]

I can understand how hectic is to stand for so much time on stage even after surgery. Let me tell you one thing the biggest concern you must have with surgery must be your recovery. If the recovery is slow, then you will suffer more after every program. My vision was affected after the stage programs due to the intense lighting done on the stage. My eye surgery was done and I started taking programs immediately caused damaged my eyes again. In your case, you must try some other treatments too. Take a Physiotherapy treatment from a highly reputed team that can help you.
https://www.physionow.ca/locations/oakville/

[izMadman]

Spinal fusion combined with nerve decompression is a serious procedure, but commonly performed, especially when symptoms are caused by compressed nerve roots. In terms of returning to playing a large instrument like a double valve bass or trombone, that timeline is going to vary based on your healing, physical therapy progress, and your surgeon’s specific post-op protocol.

If you’re looking to better understand what the surgery actually entails and what the typical recovery framework looks like, this breakdown might help: https://michaelwheelermd.com/cervical-disc-replacement/

[ghmerrill]

This is lengthy .... It may help you, or you may already know a lot of it ...

I've been diagnosed with "degenerative disc disease" since about 1997. First in my neck (two fusions, luckily not all in a row!) and then lumbar. The technology and medication has significantly improved. My condition -- and the extent of the lumbar surgery -- is comparable (disc degeneration/compression and stenosis of spine affecting the nerve on the left side) to what's described here, but not as extensive or complex. It was done at Duke by a REALLY good neuro-surgeon and was about the best surgical experience I've ever had: Into surgery at 8:00 in the morning, went home at about 5:00 in the afternoon. No pain. There's a new topical analgesic they use now (applied directly to the surgical site during surgery) that's long-lasting (2-3 days) and generally obviates the needs for more serious pain medications. I took nothing for a couple of days and (I can't remember exactly) maybe took some Ibuprofen for a couple of days. Miraculous. Just no pain.

In terms of healing, you have to give this time. Don't get anxious to move ahead too quickly and (a) put yourself in a world of hurt, and maybe (b) mess up all the nice work the surgeon did. Be REAL (I can't emphasize that enough, and I'm sure your surgeon did) careful about lifting ANYTHING. Be REAL careful about bending and twisting (especially simultaneously). My guess is that you've been referred to a physical therapist who is a specialist in dealing with patients like you. It's CRITICAL to get a qualified and experienced therapist. About a year ago I "tweaked" my back (bending+twisting), and went to a PT practice that was conveniently close to me (and had a good rep -- my wife had had good results for a different condition). The result was dangerously not good, but I saw that at the first treatment. Then I found the right guy (slightly longer trip) and he solved the problem and set me on a better track to maintain things myself and recover more quickly if I "tweak" my back again.

I'm still careful about what I do in terms of physical activity (which is really hard, because that's not exactly how I led my life), but you have to be -- or you'll pay for it by losing a lot of time recovering from self-inflicted problems. I still do most of the same things (well, except for the motorcycle riding and crashing on the track), just more carefully, more slowly, and with a relatively small regimen of exercises that specifically address the issues I have.

One other thing -- that you probably know already -- sitting (particularly in an upright chair playing bass trombone) for an extended period of time can give you problems. Try to avoid it. During those 2-hour rehearsals, try to stand up and maybe move around now and then. Also, you need to learn to distinguish from pain due to back spasms (muscular) and pain due to nerve compression/irritation -- since these need different responses. Of course, the nerve tweaking can induce the muscle spasms. That's life. I've got a pretty good regimen/response now, and it seems to work. Regular exercise (even if just walking) or periodic short workouts on a couple of machines can make a huge difference -- which reminds me that I need to get up to the local Y and hit the leg press and curl machines.