Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

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Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by 8parktoollover » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:17 am

Who are some famous bass trombonists who only play on a one valve bass. The only one I can think of is Micha davis of the isreal philharmonic.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Savio » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:38 am

I believe many symphony players use 1 valve trombone. But they change when they need two triggers. I don't know about all but think Douglas Yeo, Jeff Reynolds, Bob Hughes Chris Stearn use it sometimes, depending on the music.

Raymond Premru and George Roberts always used 1 trigger.

In the opposite scale of famous, I play a 1 trigger trombone :mrgreen:

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by ngrinder » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:11 am

I believe Tony Studd also played a single trigger TIS Conn.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by CalgaryTbone » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:13 pm

Donald Knaube (sp?) - Rochester Phil., Eastman and later at University of Texas Austin. I believe he played a Conn 72H and later, a Yamaha of similar design.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by GabrielRice » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:01 pm

Micha is the only symphony player I know of who currently uses a single valve exclusively, but lots of professional symphonic players use them occasionally, myself included. Brian Hecht, George Curran...Matt Guilford played one most of the time back in the 90s, not sure if he does sometimes now.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Schlitz » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:59 pm

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Last edited by Schlitz on Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:09 pm

Swedish bass trombone player Sven Larsson made his successful career on the single bass trombone.
Sven has performed and recorded with all the greatest Swedish artists and also was a member of the James Last band and the Paul Kuhn band in Germany to name a few. In Sweden he played in the band of legendary trumpeter Roffe Eriksson who later moved to US and made a great career there. Sven also was a member of "The Swedish Radio Jazz Group" for many years as well as "The Gugge Hedrenius Big Blues Band", and for eight years was the bass trombone player of The Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra. He was first call in Sweden on TV/Radio shows and recording sessions during the 70'ies, 80'ies and 90'ies. He did everything an a single trigger bass trombone. You can hear his broad lush sound on countless Swedish recordings from these years. I recently discovered the record "String on the Air" with music by the Swedish jazz piano player and composer Bengt Hallberg from 1990, written for The Swedish Radio Jazz Group. There you can hear his characteristic sound on all those low parts. It is really some fabulous playing and the secret is great false notes of course. Another classical jazz record if you want to hear more is the record "Brass Galore" with music composed by Nils Lindberg with music for three trumpets and two trombones. It is a record with some great solo playing from trumpeters Jan Allan, Allan Botschinsky and Markku Johansson and also great solos by trombone player Torgny Nilsson. Sven Larsson plays the bass trombone and tuba parts. That record can be found on Spotify.

/Tom
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:06 pm

imsevimse wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Swedish bass trombone player Sven Larsson made his successful career on the single bass trombone.
Sven has performed and recorded with all the greatest Swedish artists and also was a member of the James Last band and the Paul Kuhn band in Germany to name a few. In Sweden he played in the band of legendary trumpeter Roffe Eriksson who later moved to US and made a great career there. Sven also was a member of "The Swedish Radio Jazz Group" for many years as well as "The Gugge Hedrenius Big Blues Band", and for eight years was the bass trombone player of The Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra. He was first call in Sweden on TV/Radio shows and recording sessions during the 70'ies, 80'ies and 90'ies. He did everything an a single trigger bass trombone. You can hear his broad lush sound on countless Swedish recordings from these years. I recently discovered the record "String on the Air" with music by the Swedish jazz piano player and composer Bengt Hallberg from 1990, written for The Swedish Radio Jazz Group. There you can hear his characteristic sound on all those low parts. It is really some fabulous playing and the secret is great false notes of course. Another classical jazz record if you want to hear more is the record "Brass Galore" with music composed by Nils Lindberg with music for three trumpets and two trombones. It is a record with some great solo playing from trumpeters Jan Allan, Allan Botschinsky and Markku Johansson and also great solos by trombone player Torgny Nilsson. Sven Larsson plays the bass trombone and tuba parts. That record can be found on Spotify.

/Tom
If I remember correctly from the old forum, wasn’t Sven playing a Williams 10? I recall chatting with him about it and he mentioning that he eventually sold it to a student of his.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:47 am

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:06 pm
If I remember correctly from the old forum, wasn’t Sven playing a Williams 10? I recall chatting with him about it and he mentioning that he eventually sold it to a student of his.
He was at one time playing a William's 10, but sold it just as your information says. At one time all the trombone players in the Radio Jazz group played Wiliams. We think the William's 9 is the one that belonged to Bengt Edvardsson who played third in the band. What the seller said makes this possible, because he bought it used in the early 90'ies in Stockhlom in the shop that we think sold that trombone on commission, and there were not many William's sent to Sweden. This means I'm the third owner of that Williams 9. All members in the section soon abandoned the William's. As I've heard it Sven was the first who changed to something else. You correct me if I'm wrong, Sven.

/Tom
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:53 am

imsevimse wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:47 am
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:06 pm
If I remember correctly from the old forum, wasn’t Sven playing a Williams 10? I recall chatting with him about it and he mentioning that he eventually sold it to a student of his.
He was at one time playing a William's 10, but sold it just as your information says. At one time all the trombone players in the Radio Jazz group played Wiliams. We think the William's 9 is the one that belonged to Bengt Edvardsson who played third in the band. What the seller said makes this possible, because he bought it used in the early 90'ies in Stockhlom in the shop that we think sold that trombone on commission, and there were not many William's sent to Sweden. This means I'm the third owner of that Williams 9. All members in the section soon abandoned the William's. As I've heard it Sven was the first who changed to something else. You correct me if I'm wrong, Sven.

/Tom
Would have loved to hear that section! Do you know if there are any recordings available from that time when the entire section were playing on Williams?
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:56 pm

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:53 am
Would have loved to hear that section! Do you know if there are any recordings available from that time when the entire section were playing on Williams?
I met with Sven today and asked him about the Williams trombone section and apparently Torgny Nilsson (first), Bengt Edvardsson (third) and Sven Larsson (fourth) all had their Williams at the same time. Lars Olofsson (second) had a Williams too but that was not unti later. Sven said they did a lot of recordings with that "almost" complete Williams section but could not recall a specific recording right now. If we are lucky he might tune in to this thread and help us out.

/Tom
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am

imsevimse wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:56 pm
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:53 am
Would have loved to hear that section! Do you know if there are any recordings available from that time when the entire section were playing on Williams?
I met with Sven today and asked him about the Williams trombone section and apparently Torgny Nilsson (first), Bengt Edvardsson (third) and Sven Larsson (fourth) all had their Williams at the same time. Lars Olofsson (second) had a Williams too but that was not unti later. Sven said they did a lot of recordings with that "almost" complete Williams section but could not recall a specific recording right now. If we are lucky he might tune in to this thread and help us out.

/Tom
Thanks, Tom, for asking about the section! I hope Sven chimes in and can give us a bit more info about the section and any possible recordings out there.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:57 am

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am
Thanks, Tom, for asking about the section! I hope Sven chimes in and can give us a bit more info about the section and any possible recordings out there.
Another thing that needs clarification is if the section really was within "The Radio Jazz Group" there was also a band called "The Swedish Radio Big Band" existing at the same time. Sven mentioned he first was the only trombone player in the "The Radio Jazz Group" and that it was later extended with Lars Olofson. There were only two trombone players on contract. Some projects were bigger and then some players were added. "The Swedish Radio BIg Band" had a full section with four players which leads me to think that the band with the "allmost" William's section was "The Swedish Radio Big Band". The players were often the same in both bands because they were the best available at the time.

/Tom
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Basbasun » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:00 pm

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am

Thanks, Tom, for asking about the section! I hope Sven chimes in and can give us a bit more info about the section and any possible recordings out there.
Hi guys, talking about old times are we? There is one LP with Lars Samuelson orchestra (it is also on CD FLCD 168)
it called Lars Samuelson orchestra HET SOMMAR (hot summer) the trombones are Torgny Nilsson lead Bengt Edvardson second Lars Olofsson third me on bass and tuba, Torgny Bengt and me on williams horns I think Lars was still playing king. Another LP is Greeting and Salutations composed and conducted byThad Jones the Swedish Radio Jazz Group featuring Mel Lewis and Jon Faddis, LPFLC 5001, the same trombone section, both recordings are done 1975.
My Williams #10 was very good horn, I a hade tendency to play to loud with that horn though, it was VERY easy to got a lot of sound out of it, I didn´t reliza how loud I played many times. The guy who owns it now sounds beautiful on it.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Basbasun » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:20 pm

Oh maybe I should mention that I was using 1 valve only, still am, I played Conn, Bach, Holton with 1 valve. I do prefer it that way. False notes, yes my first false notes I played was 1953 or 4. I hade teachers in the 60th who included false tones in their teaching, Carl-Otto Naesén, Bertil Jacobsson, (it is actually a German tradition that Paul Weschke taught to Anton Hansé and Palmer troulsen.) They are in the instruments, the pedaltones are not the fundamentel tone of the tube length as you may know.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:54 am

Basbasun wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:00 pm
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am

Thanks, Tom, for asking about the section! I hope Sven chimes in and can give us a bit more info about the section and any possible recordings out there.
Hi guys, talking about old times are we? There is one LP with Lars Samuelson orchestra (it is also on CD FLCD 168)
it called Lars Samuelson orchestra HET SOMMAR (hot summer) the trombones are Torgny Nilsson lead Bengt Edvardson second Lars Olofsson third me on bass and tuba, Torgny Bengt and me on williams horns I think Lars was still playing king. Another LP is Greeting and Salutations composed and conducted byThad Jones the Swedish Radio Jazz Group featuring Mel Lewis and Jon Faddis, LPFLC 5001, the same trombone section, both recordings are done 1975.
My Williams #10 was very good horn, I a hade tendency to play to loud with that horn though, it was VERY easy to got a lot of sound out of it, I didn´t reliza how loud I played many times. The guy who owns it now sounds beautiful on it.
Hi Sven,

It’s good to hear from you. It’s been awhile since we last chatted on the old TTF. I’ll see if I can look up the recordings you’ve mentioned. I remember you saying on the old forum about how easy it was for you to be heard with your old Williams. Special horns these are!
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Savio » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:25 pm

I belive Sven also played the music in some of the movies by Astrid Lindgren books for children? The music was composed by Georg Riedel. A Swedish jazz musician and composer. Very nice and exposed bass trombone playing. Reminds me a little of the George Roberts style of playing.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:04 pm

Savio wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:25 pm
I belive Sven also played the music in some of the movies by Astrid Lindgren books for children? The music was composed by Georg Riedel. A Swedish jazz musician and composer. Very nice and exposed bass trombone playing. Reminds me a little of the George Roberts style of playing.
I know for a fact he's been compared with George Roberts by that expressen: "The Swedish George Roberts". I don't know if he knows that himself?

/Tom
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by ddsbstrb » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:20 pm

I am so glad that someone happened to mention Tony Studd! Do any of you happen to own or might have listened to Manny Album's great recording on Solid State (vinyl) called "Brass On Fire?" I have it on the original vinyl and am not sure if it was ever done on CD.

First of all, it is some very fine ensemble playing, with just brass and rhythm, used for the recording. The plus is, get your headphones on and listen very carefully to Tony Studd. The sound he produces is perfect, for the recording. He is recorded very well, which really helps; but, it is one of the best bass trombone sounds of his day (1966) or, for ANY day!

Here is one track from you tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCZzxhM0YLw

Make sure you listen to the very end for the bass trombone.

From looking at the photos of this session on the record jacket, it sure looks like Tony might be playing just a 72H. When I find the album, in my collection, I will look once again. It was, for sure, a single valve bass bone!
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by BGuttman » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:38 pm

There's some luscious bass trombone playing throughout that recording. And the solo is something to strive for.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by FOSSIL » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:35 am

Sublime.

Why did people stop trying to sound like that ?

Because it's too hard to do.

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Pre59 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:01 am

You'll be sure to like this then. Ok, the reverb is set to 11, but great trombone playing with two bass trombones in the section, and beautiful exposed bass tbn throughout.

Now re-released c/w with a Kai Winding quartet jazz album.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Olé

This is a more restrained track, with nice Tony Studd part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDc5Qh7wbSA

...and found another track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYp0MGSzM-I
Last edited by Pre59 on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Basbasun » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:04 am

Yes Tony studd was a really great player, lots of good playing with Gil Evans. Yes I heard the mem "the Swedish George Roberts", I feel really honoured, but I can not compare my self with GR, he the greatest. I am not in that leag.
Did anybody mention Kenny Schroyer?
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by ddsbstrb » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:36 pm

Basbasun………Now your talkin'! I would like to point out another of my very favorite Capitol vinyl's called Bill Holman's Great Big Band. This recording uses the standard big band with 2 horns added to the brass. This album was recorded in LA in 1960. You could probably guess who most of the great players are. This was one of the first big band recordings I heard; as, I was kind of new to jazz in those days. I was a senior in high school and played tuba. It was so great on hearing Kenny Shroyer! Check him out, on Bill's beautiful chart of Speak Low.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Kenny several times, when he toured our area in SW Ohio with the Mike Vax Kenton Alumni Band. Kenny also grew up in the city where the ITF was, Muncie IN. When Kenny returned home to Muncie, probably after a Kenton-tour, in the 1950's, he did a four bone gig for several weeks in a club in Dayton OH, with a good trombone-friend of mine, by the name of Ian Polster. I have also had the pleasure of calling Kenny several times and talking what kind of equipment (bass bones) those guys were playing in the 1950's-70's in LA. A very interest guy, with a fantastic memory for facts!

Kenny also has that "classic" sound like George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Alan Raph, and Thomas "Tommy" Mitchell Their sounds "spoke" with great clarity, focus and a note-front-end, to kill-for! Some how, over the years, some of these great qualities, might have been lost, if only temporarily?

I am sure that great Willis Holman album has to be on You Tube.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by FOSSIL » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:35 am

How have these great qualities been lost ?

Big mouthpieces and small minds.

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by dukesboneman » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:07 am

George Roberts - Need I say more?
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by jthomas105 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:12 am

Another recording to hear Tony Studd on is, Quincy Jones' Walking in Space
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by bigbandbone » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:38 pm

Rookie bass bone player question - False tones were mentioned above. What are false tones?
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by JohnL » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:16 pm

bigbandbone wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:38 pm
Rookie bass bone player question - False tones were mentioned above. What are false tones?
In a general sense, it's any time you make your chops buzz a different note than your horn wants to play. Like playing an Eb below the staff on a straight tenor. It's an acquired skill.

When bass trombone players use the term they're usually talking about playing low B (and possibly C) without the benefit of a second valve or pulling the F-attachment to E.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:16 pm

bigbandbone wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:38 pm
Rookie bass bone player question - False tones were mentioned above. What are false tones?
Tangent

Here is a couple of excerpts on false notes on a straight trombone. There are more videos on the webpage that you find at the end of my post, in the signature.
On the page there are examples with both tenor and bass trombone and sheet music that shows where to find the false notes on both the valve and the straight horn.

You need the technique with false notes to play the low B without pulling the F-tuningslide to flat E-tuning. On a trigger trombone It enables you to still have the F just below the staff and the C within the staff on T1 and you also have the low C and B on the upper part of the slide as false notes. This is very convenient and you have a fully chromatic single valve horn down to the pedals.




/Tom
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Savio » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:01 pm

FOSSIL wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:35 am
How have these great qualities been lost ?

Big mouthpieces and small minds.

Chris
Chris, you made my day!! :good: Why do all think they need a big mouthpieces to make a great sound?
See you soon!
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by bigbandbone » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:35 pm

ddsbstrb eloquently said, "Kenny also has that "classic" sound like George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Alan Raph, and Thomas "Tommy" Mitchell Their sounds "spoke" with great clarity, focus and a note-front-end, to kill-for! Some how, over the years, some of these great qualities, might have been lost."
How did they get that sound? We've discussed their horns, how about mouthpieces. Big or small? Bowel or V cup? Thick or thin rim. Deep or shallow cup?
And of course practice, practice, practice!
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by FOSSIL » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:42 am

bigbandbone wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:35 pm
ddsbstrb eloquently said, "Kenny also has that "classic" sound like George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Alan Raph, and Thomas "Tommy" Mitchell Their sounds "spoke" with great clarity, focus and a note-front-end, to kill-for! Some how, over the years, some of these great qualities, might have been lost."
How did they get that sound? We've discussed their horns, how about mouthpieces. Big or small? Bowel or V cup? Thick or thin rim. Deep or shallow cup?
And of course practice, practice, practice!
Nobody who made that classic sound, did it on a big mouthpiece. Getting a great low register on a 2G or 1 1/2G takes a lot of work. Obviously it is possible as these great players have shown. There are many great contemporary players using much bigger equipment and making wonderful sounds, but they are different sounds to these classic players.
MYTH-BUSTER ALERT

Mouthpieces are NOT like shoes. The mouthpiece needs to suit the instrument ... try playing a tuba with a trumpet mouthpiece. Faces can adapt. The mouthpiece has to join together the player and instrument, sure... but it has to match the instrument in acoustic terms and help the player get their sonic concept out of the bell. I've played very big mouthpieces, I've played small mouthpieces.... some instruments work better with one or the other. No big mouthpiece has gotten me quite the sound I want... very close at times, but not quite there, so I play smaller.

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by bigbandbone » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:07 am

FOSSIL wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:42 am
bigbandbone wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:35 pm
ddsbstrb eloquently said, "Kenny also has that "classic" sound like George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Alan Raph, and Thomas "Tommy" Mitchell Their sounds "spoke" with great clarity, focus and a note-front-end, to kill-for! Some how, over the years, some of these great qualities, might have been lost."
How did they get that sound? We've discussed their horns, how about mouthpieces. Big or small? Bowel or V cup? Thick or thin rim. Deep or shallow cup?
And of course practice, practice, practice!
Nobody who made that classic sound, did it on a big mouthpiece. Getting a great low register on a 2G or 1 1/2G takes a lot of work. Obviously it is possible as these great players have shown. There are many great contemporary players using much bigger equipment and making wonderful sounds, but they are different sounds to these classic players.
MYTH-BUSTER ALERT

Mouthpieces are NOT like shoes. The mouthpiece needs to suit the instrument ... try playing a tuba with a trumpet mouthpiece. Faces can adapt. The mouthpiece has to join together the player and instrument, sure... but it has to match the instrument in acoustic terms and help the player get their sonic concept out of the bell. I've played very big mouthpieces, I've played small mouthpieces.... some instruments work better with one or the other. No big mouthpiece has gotten me quite the sound I want... very close at times, but not quite there, so I play smaller.

Chris
Thanks for the reply Chris. So where in the spectrum of small verses large does a 1 1/2 Marcinkiewicz fall. The reason I ask is I just transitioned from doubler to primarily bass and am looking for the "sound" we've discussed in this thread. Just before this thread appeared I ordered a 1 1/2G Marcinkiewicz with B&S taper shank for my 72H and I'm hoping I'm on the right track. I haven't been on the mouthpiece merry go round since the early 70's and it's definitely more expensive today. I'm hoping not to make too many mis-steps.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by pompatus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:58 am

The Marcinkiewicz 1 1/2 uses the same spec as their old George Roberts model. George Roberts was known to use mouthpieces in the area of the Bach 1 1/2G or very slightly larger, iirc. Mr. Roberts, aka Mr. Bass Trombone, is one of the guys whose name is synonymous with that "classic" sound.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by FOSSIL » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:01 am

You are probably on the right track bigbandbone. I cannot remember what their 11/2g is like but I've heard great sounds coming from their smaller pieces with the right player. With that gear and a clear concept in your head, you're on your way !!

Chris
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by bigbandbone » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:34 am

Wow, this has been a great thread for me! Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Now I know who to listen to for sound concept and know my equipment is in the ballpark for a good start. Love the single valve path!
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by JoeStanko » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:28 am

Donald Knaub played a 72H with a 1 1/2G and a 73H at times prior to switching to Yamaha. His first two solo recordings and the Eastman Brass Quintet recordings playing the trombone parts are wonderful examples of crystal clear and resonant sound.

Hi Denny: <<Kenny also has that "classic" sound like George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Alan Raph, and Thomas "Tommy" Mitchell Their sounds "spoke" with great clarity, focus and a note-front-end, to kill-for! Some how, over the years, some of these great qualities, might have been lost, if only temporarily?>>

..add Paul Faulise! Not 100% on topic as these players used double valve instruments. Dave Taylor used a Holton 169 with the detachable second valve in E'ish for quite a while before having it extended to D.

jthomas105 wrote: <<Another recording to hear Tony Studd on is, Quincy Jones' Walking in Space>>

Note that Alan Raph is listed on the credits - if there a listing that could indicate who recorded this track..terrific sound!

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:02 pm

I recently acquired a Conn 3B (non-Connstellation) bass mouthpiece and have been using it exclusively with my Williams 10 and Fuchs. Prior to this I was playing on a Laskey 93D and although I still love it, there’s something special about the 3B. Much more focused sound and it just feels more “solid” all around the horn. I haven’t played a 1 1/2G variant in awhile now, but from what I remember, they never really worked well with me. Even the couple of Mt. Vernon copies I had I ended up selling not long after acquiring them.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by FOSSIL » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:48 pm

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:02 pm
I recently acquired a Conn 3B (non-Connstellation) bass mouthpiece and have been using it exclusively with my Williams 10 and Fuchs. Prior to this I was playing on a Laskey 93D and although I still love it, there’s something special about the 3B. Much more focused sound and it just feels more “solid” all around the horn. I haven’t played a 1 1/2G variant in awhile now, but from what I remember, they never really worked well with me. Even the couple of Mt. Vernon copies I had I ended up selling not long after acquiring them.

The Williams 10 and the Fuchs were designed using smaller mouthpieces... much smaller in the case of the Fuchs, so they come into their own using such pieces. On the other hand, try playing a modern Yamaha bass with a small mouthpiece and it sounds wrong. Mt Vernon copies are never really like an original, though taken overall, I prefer the Symington copy that I am using now.

Chris
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:57 pm

FOSSIL wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:48 pm
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:02 pm
I recently acquired a Conn 3B (non-Connstellation) bass mouthpiece and have been using it exclusively with my Williams 10 and Fuchs. Prior to this I was playing on a Laskey 93D and although I still love it, there’s something special about the 3B. Much more focused sound and it just feels more “solid” all around the horn. I haven’t played a 1 1/2G variant in awhile now, but from what I remember, they never really worked well with me. Even the couple of Mt. Vernon copies I had I ended up selling not long after acquiring them.

The Williams 10 and the Fuchs were designed using smaller mouthpieces... much smaller in the case of the Fuchs, so they come into their own using such pieces. On the other hand, try playing a modern Yamaha bass with a small mouthpiece and it sounds wrong. Mt Vernon copies are never really like an original, though taken overall, I prefer the Symington copy that I am using now.

Chris
Whoops, that was a typo. It should’ve read Mt. Vernon “pieces” instead of “copies.” I had two Mt. Vernon 1 1/2G’s and never really felt comfortable on them. Then again that was probably more “me” instead of pieces not working out as I was playing a much bigger piece at the time (Schilke 60) and just couldn’t adjust/jive with them. But yes, the smaller bass pieces are wonderful with the 10 and Fuchs.
Last edited by HawaiiTromboneGuy on Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by jthomas105 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:40 pm

JoeStanko wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:28 am
Donald Knaub played a 72H with a 1 1/2G and a 73H at times prior to switching to Yamaha. His first two solo recordings and the Eastman Brass Quintet recordings playing the trombone parts are wonderful examples of crystal clear and resonant sound.

Hi Denny: <<Kenny also has that "classic" sound like George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Alan Raph, and Thomas "Tommy" Mitchell Their sounds "spoke" with great clarity, focus and a note-front-end, to kill-for! Some how, over the years, some of these great qualities, might have been lost, if only temporarily?>>

..add Paul Faulise! Not 100% on topic as these players used double valve instruments. Dave Taylor used a Holton 169 with the detachable second valve in E'ish for quite a while before having it extended to D.

jthomas105 wrote: <<Another recording to hear Tony Studd on is, Quincy Jones' Walking in Space>>

Note that Alan Raph is listed on the credits - if there a listing that could indicate who recorded this track..terrific sound!

Joe Stanko
Joe,
I was stating that about "Tony Studd" (What a name for a bass trombone player) from my memory from when I used to listen to Walking in Space many years ago after it was introduced me in college. Tony Studd was the only name I could remember from his liner notes from the late '70s. Never had the record, just a copy from him. I did buy the CD a couple of years ago and added to my iTunes so I just got it out to check it.

Here's what it said about the trombone "section/s" on my CD notes that says the info was taken from the original.

Tracks - 1 (Dead End) 2 (Walking in Space) & 5 (I Never Told You) recorded June 19, 1969 at Van Gelder studio

Jimmy Cleveland, Tony Studd, Kai Winding (Trombone) George Jeffers (Bass Trombone)

Track 3 - Killer Joe recorded June 18, 1969 at Van Gelder studio

Jimmy Cleveland, J. J. Johnson, Alan Raph, Tony Studd (Trombone)

Tracks - 4 (Love and Peace) & 6 (Oh, Happy Day) recorded June 19, 1969 at Van Gelder studio

Jimmy Cleveland, J. J. Johnson, Norman Pride, Tony Studd, (Trombones) Alan Raph (Bass Trombone)

What an amazing group of players. When I was referencing Tony Studd to this I always assumed it was him on "Walking in Space" but according the notes it was George Jeffers on bass trombone for that.

Then Alan Raph is has some outstanding bass trombone work also on track 4 - Love and Peace

John Thomas
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by ssking2b » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:30 am

Tony Studd switched to tenor trombone quite successfully after years of playing bass bone. If you want to hear the best examples of his bass trombone try the BRASS ON FIRE album by Mann Albam from 1966. It is great, and he is fantastic. He influenced my bass trombone playing immeasurably by listening to that recording. I still have, and I stiil listen to it! Here is a listing for the vinyl version on AMAZON:

https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Fire-Manny ... B001P7AK66

He is listed on the AMAZON site incorrectly as TONY STUFF! This copy is MONO, I have it in STEREO!
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Savio » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:34 pm

8parktoollover wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:17 am
Who are some famous bass trombonists who only play on a one valve bass. The only one I can think of is Micha davis of the isreal philharmonic.
I believe there is lot of bass players with 1 valve. After all the most obvious one is George Roberts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQEG5iZD6w

He was the first bass trombone player to play a melody! He even did it when he got old;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPSQ3O75pfw

Here is a link where he tell the bass trombone should be a lyrical horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCaH6tWqcpg

Today we play solo but its mostly to show technicality and range.

Leif
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Inspector71 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:14 pm

CalgaryTbone wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:13 pm
Donald Knaube (sp?) - Rochester Phil., Eastman and later at University of Texas Austin. I believe he played a Conn 72H and later, a Yamaha of similar design.
Yep...Knauby, as we called him, played a 72H for most, if not all, of his time with Rochester. All of his first album and most of his second album was on the 72 as well. Once at Texas, I believe, he switched to the Yamaha 613R double independent. He also had a Bach 50B3 but rarely played it.

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by imsevimse » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:11 pm

Savio wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:34 pm
8parktoollover wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:17 am
Who are some famous bass trombonists who only play on a one valve bass. The only one I can think of is Micha davis of the isreal philharmonic.
I believe there is lot of bass players with 1 valve. After all the most obvious one is George Roberts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQEG5iZD6w

He was the first bass trombone player to play a melody! He even did it when he got old;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPSQ3O75pfw

Here is a link where he tell the bass trombone should be a lyrical horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCaH6tWqcpg

Today we play solo but its mostly to show technicality and range.

Leif
George Roberts with Nelson Riddle 🙂👍That's the sound, right there on that recording that I want.

I have never liked the big bass trombone sound of our time. It has never touched my heart really. Not the sound. There are indead fantastic classical bass trombone soloists today, no question about that and they are technical and musical enough but none of the ones I'm thinking of seem to have this sound concept in their mind and yet this is the best sound, at least to me this is the sound I like the most. Thanks Leif!

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by bigbandbone » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:06 pm

ssking2b wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:30 am
Tony Studd switched to tenor trombone quite successfully after years of playing bass bone. If you want to hear the best examples of his bass trombone try the BRASS ON FIRE album by Mann Albam from 1966. It is great, and he is fantastic. He influenced my bass trombone playing immeasurably by listening to that recording. I still have, and I stiil listen to it! Here is a listing for the vinyl version on AMAZON:

https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Fire-Manny ... B001P7AK66

He is listed on the AMAZON site incorrectly as TONY STUFF! This copy is MONO, I have it in STEREO!
Does anyone have a source for "Brass on Fire" on CD?
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by bigbandbone » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:48 am

I just listened to Nelson Riddles "The Joy Of Living" album in it's entirety on YouTube. Wow! What a tour-de-force for GR. Definitely a sound to emulate! How much "sweetening" was done in the recording studios in that period (late 50's-early 60's)? For those of you that played with or heard George Roberts live, was there a difference between his live sound and recorded sound?
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by Jimprindle » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:30 pm

bigbandbone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:48 am
I just listened to Nelson Riddles "The Joy Of Living" album in it's entirety on YouTube. Wow! What a tour-de-force for GR. Definitely a sound to emulate! How much "sweetening" was done in the recording studios in that period (late 50's-early 60's)? For those of you that played with or heard George Roberts live, was there a difference between his live sound and recorded sound?
I went to live concerts that featured GR from 1963-68. No matter where you sat in the auditorium (usually HS or college, once in a convention hall) with no mic, his sound projected above the accompaniment (usually not very good student bands) with no effort. A jazz sax player friend said, "Listening to him is like taking a bath in melted chocolate".

All the times I heard him, live and recorded, it was (as the studio recording guys called him) Mr. Bass Trombone.
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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Post by 2bobone » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:37 pm

I'm replying to comments by "Inspector 71". I was a student of Donald Knaub in 1956-61 at The Eastman School of Music. Hearing him play on a Reynolds Contempora back then was my inspiration to follow the bass trombone path [ I began studying with him as a euphonium player]. He did, indeed, switch to a Conn 72H from the Reynolds and always used a Bach 1 1/2 G --- and even a Bach 2G --- on his horns. He had an accident on a construction site as a student where he worked a summer job, during which his front teeth and lips were smashed by the collapse of a scaffold. He credits a dentist who repaired the damage sufficiently for him to manage a long and successful career as a performer and teacher. I remember vividly him showing me the lumps of scar tissue that still resided in his upper lip. He contacted me me to re-master the analogue vinyl recordings he had done throughout his career because he feared that his legacy as a performer would die away without digital replications of his work. I did so, and the resultant recording is available as "RETREAD". A remarkable man, friend and teacher. He did eventually play a Yamaha and made a video for them while being a Yamaha clinician. It is very difficult to believe that he EVER owned a Bach trombone, but not difficult to believe at all that he rarely used it. His sound was distinctive, to say the least, and a Bach would have never been his first choice. RIP, Don.
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