Help me make sense of this MV 1.5

[RustBeltBass]

Hello everyone,

Not an expert on Bach Mount Vernon era equipment. A colleague of mine bought this a while ago and generously allowed me to have it.

First of all, this thing sounds great !!! It does not feel like a small mouthpiece at all, big sound and lots of core, fun !

What surprises me is how short the shank is or rather how deep it goes into the leadpipe on Shires and Edwards bass trombones. It goes in almost all the way to the cup. Is that normal or do you think the shank has been altered ? It is perfectly round, but it looks almost like it has a little nick in there, if that makes sense ?

Not normally my size of mouthpiece but I used it for several professional gigs over the years and really enjoyed it.

[WGWTR180]

I've owned more than several versions on the Bach MV 1 and 1/2G. I own 3 today. Each look and play differently. These mouthpieces were also altered by players looking for something "extra". Usually alteration results were disappointing. Maybe you can take some pics with a better angle and with another Bach piece beside this one for comparison. I don't have any perspective on shank length with these shots.

[mearldanner]

A pic of it and another mouthpiece inserted into the horn and a measurement of how much of each is inserted would be helpful.

[Burgerbob]

Finetales has a 70H with an odd shank size. I wonder if this is for something like that.

[RustBeltBass]

Thank you for all your help so far. I took a few more photos, with a standard modern Bach 2G next to it. To my surprise, they are pretty much the same length. I took two more photos, each of these in a standard Edwards Bass slide/leadpipe.

Here you can see just how far the MV goes in.

[blast]

It's shaved down a bit. Might help the blow . I gave one like that to WGWTR180, with a sleeve to make it more versatile.

[RustBeltBass]

It's shaved down a bit. Might help the blow . I gave one like that to WGWTR180, with a sleeve to make it more versatile.

Thank you, this is very helpful. I will say it does play very open and freely compared to any other mouthpiece I played in that size, MVs and others. Has a gorgeous sound !

[JohnL]

It'll probably fit an older Olds bass perfectly; that's about how my vintage Olds G fits a standard receiver.

[octavposaune]

I have a factory medium shank 1.5G, I wonder if this one for German medium.shank horn,

My medium shank is a bit thick for my G bass, but it works quite well.

Benn

[WGWTR180]

It's shaved down a bit. Might help the blow . I gave one like that to WGWTR180, with a sleeve to make it more versatile.

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

Reminds me of this oddball that I have.

viewtopic.php?p=273268#p273268

[GabrielRice]

It's shaved down a bit. Might help the blow .

What's happening here is that the two venturis - the throat of the mouthpiece and the smallest point of the leadpipe taper - are closer together than in your 2G picture above. That dimension affects the blow and slotting. Trumpet players call it adjusting the gap.

A shorter shank like the MV 1-1/2G will blow more freely, possibly at the expense of clear articulations and well-defined slots. The sensation I get when the gap is too small (shank too short) is that the articulation and sustain of notes don't match pitch well. When the gap is too big (shank too long) the blow can feel stiff, too much effort to slur between partials, inflexible tone color, sometimes a bit harsh.

When you have a mouthpiece with a short shank like this, you can find the optimal length for it by wrapping tape around the receiver to get it sticking farther out of the leadpipe. Teflon plumber's tape works well - there's no adhesive to leave residue or anything.

And then if you determine that you love this mouthpiece but need for the shank to be longer, expert mouthpiece makers like Greg Black, John Stork, Terry Warburton, etc. can re-shank it to get it exactly where you want it. Bob Reeves mouthpieces even makes sleeve kits (Reeves Sleeves). I had a Greg Black mouthpiece converted to Reeves Sleeves a few years back so that I could play it with either a Morse or Remington taper shank. They work well.

[GabrielRice]

To be clear, in this case it's not about the shank itself being longer or shorter, but the taper of the shank making it effectively longer or shorter relative to the leadpipe venturi.

[harrisonreed]

Yes, if it goes in further, so that the distance be to the venturi is less, it will play more open than an internally identical mouthpiece (and identical length) that has a larger shank thickness (making it insert less).

My alto pieces do this. Not only are they shorter than a regular an small shank piece, they also go in further. My L1 mouthpiece design, which is quite shallow in the cup for large bore, also does this to a great extent, but is also quite long. The result is that it is in tune, plays very open, but has the sound and upper register of a shallow mouthpiece.

That said, the shank insertion depth on your MV appears excessive. Usually you so would take such a decision into account and design the mouthpiece to be longer. That effectively short mouthpiece probably has quite different intonation than originally intended.

[RustBeltBass]

I am learning a lot today, thank you all very much !

It would have been very interesting to know gow different it may have sounded before. What amazes me is how comfortable the rim is compared to modern Bachs.

[WGWTR180]

I don't have a picture BUT I know that Paul Faulise took a Corporation Bach 1 and 1/2G and did 2 things:

1. He opened up the throat 1 drill size.

2. He shaved down the shank until it fit very far into his pipe(obviously a little at a time).

It might not have worked for others but it sure as hell worked for him!

[harrisonreed]

I am learning a lot today, thank you all very much !

It would have been very interesting to know gow different it may have sounded before. What amazes me is how comfortable the rim is compared to modern Bachs.

Just by eyeballing your photo, it looks like the "high point" of the rim is closer to the middle of the contour, and that the contour is relatively rounded. Modern Bach rims, for the most part, have the high point close to the inner rim, right before it goes into the cup.

[GabrielRice]

It would have been very interesting to know gow different it may have sounded before. What amazes me is how comfortable the rim is compared to modern Bachs.

You can do a completely reversible experiment for this by wrapping the shank with plumber's teflon tape.

The late, great Sam Burtis used to have the shanks of most of his mouthpieces shaved down so that he could wrap them with tape and find the sweetest insertion spot for each mouthpiece/instrument combination.

[ZacharyThornton]

Another term for this adjusting the engagement point of the mouthpiece to leadpipe. It’s an art and if you take mass away you can’t add it back except with a sleeve.
Good luck and I hope you get it to work for you!

[harrisonreed]

It would have been very interesting to know gow different it may have sounded before. What amazes me is how comfortable the rim is compared to modern Bachs.

You can do a completely reversible experiment for this by wrapping the shank with plumber's teflon tape.

The late, great Sam Burtis used to have the shanks of most of his mouthpieces shaved down so that he could wrap them with tape and find the sweetest insertion spot for each mouthpiece/instrument combination.

I had initially considered making my mouthpieces like this as an option....but that seems kind of like a copout and I doubt most people would want that.