Some large bore impressions

[MStarke]

This sunday I visited a regional brass event. I really didn't have much time, so only managed to take a lesson with one of the artists (trumpet professor at one of the German "Musikhochschulen", very good input!) and a little time to talk to some people and look around the exhibition a bit.

I tried a few large bores out of curiosity and wanted to share some impressions. Of course these are always only individual examples of the instruments, so they may not be representative:
- Conn 88HNV: Hadn't played this model before. Overall less responsive and interesting to play than my modern 88ht, maybe a little better valve register. Overall I was not really impressed. No comparison with my Greenhoe 88ht, which I had with me that day
- Bach 42BOF: I don't really like Bachs, but this one was far more stable and felt all around much better than the Conn. The Meinlschmidt valve felt good and open, no surprise. Still, not for me.
- Voigt number 1: First I played what seemed to be their "step-up" large bore. Red bell, nickel slide, rotary valve. Very good instrument, very responsive.
- Voigt number 2: Then the representative put together what would be their "closest relative" to an 88h. Same red bell, red brass slide, rotary valve, a little more fancy build elements. This one was GREAT! It had that vintage 88h character, with really great playability and really light response across all notes. IF I should consider getting a new large bore at some point, I would definitely look into this one.
- Voigt number 3: Last I tried a kind of American/German hybrid. Red bell with bell garland, red tuning slide, Hagmann valve, snake ornaments. It played really well, but to me it became on the one hand a bit heavy and unflexible in how it played and on the other hand may have sounded a bit to straightforward.
- I also played two Lätzsch American-style large bores which were certainly great instruments, but didn't really work for me.

To me personally the Voigt number 2 (don't know the model number) was the clear winner.
Conn Selmer may have to get their quality together and maybe rethink their designs...

[WGWTR180]

Good reviews-thanks.
Have always been curious about the Voigt basses. Too bad you didn’t have the time.

[Finetales]

Conn Selmer may have to get their quality together and maybe rethink their designs...

Don't hold your breath! As long as they're still getting that school money, they couldn't care less.

[MStarke]

Good reviews-thanks.
Have always been curious about the Voigt basses. Too bad you didn’t have the time.

Maybe next time. I didn't have enough time and also didn't want to play around too much before that lesson.

[atopper333]

I really appreciate your take on the 88hnv. Always been a Conn 8/88H fan and was wondering how it might stack up against an HT bell. Been looking for a solid take on that horn for awhile. Been toying with the thought of picking one up, but I think I’ll just stick with what I’ve got…

[EriKon]

Interesting review. I've tried some of the same instruments a few months ago at FMB. To me the Conn 88HNV was far superior to the Voigt Large Tenors. It had lots of the same qualities that my Elkhart has but with a little more moderness to it. Those Voigt horns didn't work at all for me, they were lacking warmth and core at the same time and the playing/sound felt very diffuse.

Back then I had the Yamaha Xeno Large Bore in my trying cycle as well and this was definitely the winner of all those. Also played a B&S Meistersinger and one more that I can't remember.

[Burgerbob]

I have a friend with a couple HNVs, they are really quite good when they are good. I did think the 88HTGs I have are better though.

[atopper333]

I have a friend with a couple HNVs, they are really quite good when they are good. I did think the 88HTGs I have are better though.

Novice question here…what does the G mean in HTG?

[Burgerbob]

Greenhoe. They were the "lesser" of the two Greenhoe option 88Hs. Very very good horns.

[atopper333]

Greenhoe. They were the "lesser" of the two Greenhoe option 88Hs. Very very good horns.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks much!

[deanmccarty]

- Voigt number 2: Then the representative put together what would be their "closest relative" to an 88h. Same red bell, red brass slide, rotary valve, a little more fancy build elements. This one was GREAT! It had that vintage 88h character, with really great playability and really light response across all notes. IF I should consider getting a new large bore at some point, I would definitely look into this one.

To me personally the Voigt number 2 (don't know the model number) was the clear winner.

More than likely you tried out the JV188-R… they have options for a traditional Conn style wrap, or an open wrap. You can get a traditional rotor, Hagmann valve, or the new free-flow valve that Voigt makes. But the standard rotor would give it more of the Elkhart feel.

I have been blown away with the product that Jürgen Voigt is producing. I currently have a large tenor (JV188-FXG) with the free-flow valve and a unique x style wrap, and a gold brass bell; an alto (JV711-RK) with a red bell and garland; and a contra (JV173-FGgK) with a gold brass bell and free flow valves. I have a bass and small tenor on order and should be in my hands before the end of the year. The bass I chose is SO responsive… it is a hybrid of two models… JV163-FG, gold brass bell, with free flow valves, yellow brass slide with a heavy nickel crook. The small tenor is a .500 bore JV27 yellow brass bell with a nickel slide. It is fantastic.

I have had many compliments on the contra sound… it is just fun to play. The alto, I don’t have a lot of call for it, but it kind of fell in my lap, so it was hard to pass up. The tenor just blew me away with the warmth of sound and responsiveness at all volumes. I had my Rath R4 with me to compare and my wife, after hearing the Voigt, said “you have to buy this horn!”

I cannot say enough about the trombones that Jürgen Voigt are putting out. Their “step up” horn is made in house… not farmed to China like everyone else. The only difference is that it’s not customizable… you get what you get. It’s less expensive than a Bach 42 or Conn 88H… but is more than an Eastman. It is a fantastic instrument for a serious student or semi-pro. The JV188 series has SO many options. You can build the perfect horn. It is not modular. You choose your components and they build your instrument.

I hope more people give Voigt Brass a serious look… their product is ridiculously good.

[MStarke]

Interesting review. I've tried some of the same instruments a few months ago at FMB. To me the Conn 88HNV was far superior to the Voigt Large Tenors. It had lots of the same qualities that my Elkhart has but with a little more moderness to it. Those Voigt horns didn't work at all for me, they were lacking warmth and core at the same time and the playing/sound felt very diffuse.

Back then I had the Yamaha Xeno Large Bore in my trying cycle as well and this was definitely the winner of all those. Also played a B&S Meistersinger and one more that I can't remember.

Maybe that specific 88HNV I played was just bad...

[WGWTR180]

- Voigt number 2: Then the representative put together what would be their "closest relative" to an 88h. Same red bell, red brass slide, rotary valve, a little more fancy build elements. This one was GREAT! It had that vintage 88h character, with really great playability and really light response across all notes. IF I should consider getting a new large bore at some point, I would definitely look into this one.

To me personally the Voigt number 2 (don't know the model number) was the clear winner.

More than likely you tried out the JV188-R… they have options for a traditional Conn style wrap, or an open wrap. You can get a traditional rotor, Hagmann valve, or the new free-flow valve that Voigt makes. But the standard rotor would give it more of the Elkhart feel.

I have been blown away with the product that Jürgen Voigt is producing. I currently have a large tenor (JV188-FXG) with the free-flow valve and a unique x style wrap, and a gold brass bell; an alto (JV711-RK) with a red bell and garland; and a contra (JV173-FGgK) with a gold brass bell and free flow valves. I have a bass and small tenor on order and should be in my hands before the end of the year. The bass I chose is SO responsive… it is a hybrid of two models… JV163-FG, gold brass bell, with free flow valves, yellow brass slide with a heavy nickel crook. The small tenor is a .500 bore JV27 yellow brass bell with a nickel slide. It is fantastic.

I have had many compliments on the contra sound… it is just fun to play. The alto, I don’t have a lot of call for it, but it kind of fell in my lap, so it was hard to pass up. The tenor just blew me away with the warmth of sound and responsiveness at all volumes. I had my Rath R4 with me to compare and my wife, after hearing the Voigt, said “you have to buy this horn!”

I cannot say enough about the trombones that Jürgen Voigt are putting out. Their “step up” horn is made in house… not farmed to China like everyone else. The only difference is that it’s not customizable… you get what you get. It’s less expensive than a Bach 42 or Conn 88H… but is more than an Eastman. It is a fantastic instrument for a serious student or semi-pro. The JV188 series has SO many options. You can build the perfect horn. It is not modular. You choose your components and they build your instrument.

I hope more people give Voigt Brass a serious look… their product is ridiculously good.

You’re livin’ the dream!!!

[bassbone1993]

- Voigt number 2: Then the representative put together what would be their "closest relative" to an 88h. Same red bell, red brass slide, rotary valve, a little more fancy build elements. This one was GREAT! It had that vintage 88h character, with really great playability and really light response across all notes. IF I should consider getting a new large bore at some point, I would definitely look into this one.

To me personally the Voigt number 2 (don't know the model number) was the clear winner.

More than likely you tried out the JV188-R… they have options for a traditional Conn style wrap, or an open wrap. You can get a traditional rotor, Hagmann valve, or the new free-flow valve that Voigt makes. But the standard rotor would give it more of the Elkhart feel.

I have been blown away with the product that Jürgen Voigt is producing. I currently have a large tenor (JV188-FXG) with the free-flow valve and a unique x style wrap, and a gold brass bell; an alto (JV711-RK) with a red bell and garland; and a contra (JV173-FGgK) with a gold brass bell and free flow valves. I have a bass and small tenor on order and should be in my hands before the end of the year. The bass I chose is SO responsive… it is a hybrid of two models… JV163-FG, gold brass bell, with free flow valves, yellow brass slide with a heavy nickel crook. The small tenor is a .500 bore JV27 yellow brass bell with a nickel slide. It is fantastic.

I have had many compliments on the contra sound… it is just fun to play. The alto, I don’t have a lot of call for it, but it kind of fell in my lap, so it was hard to pass up. The tenor just blew me away with the warmth of sound and responsiveness at all volumes. I had my Rath R4 with me to compare and my wife, after hearing the Voigt, said “you have to buy this horn!”

I cannot say enough about the trombones that Jürgen Voigt are putting out. Their “step up” horn is made in house… not farmed to China like everyone else. The only difference is that it’s not customizable… you get what you get. It’s less expensive than a Bach 42 or Conn 88H… but is more than an Eastman. It is a fantastic instrument for a serious student or semi-pro. The JV188 series has SO many options. You can build the perfect horn. It is not modular. You choose your components and they build your instrument.

I hope more people give Voigt Brass a serious look… their product is ridiculously good.

How did the R4 comapre to the Voigt tenor from your end?

[deanmccarty]

How did the R4 comapre to the Voigt tenor from your end?

I’ll put it into perspective.

For my R4, I had a nickel bell with a rose tuning slide, Hagmann valve, red single bore slide with a nickel crook. For the Voigt, first, I tried many variations of the 188… I had 4 different bells (yellow, gold, red, and nickel) to choose from, 3 different valve types (standard rotor, Hagmann, and Voigt Free-Flow), 3 different valve wraps (Elkhart Conn style, open-wrap, and the unique Voigt X wrap that puts the valve itself offset from the main horn), 4 different outer slide materials (same as the bell choices), and quite a few different leadpipe choices.

After I narrowed down to what felt best to my chops and my ears I had chosen the gold brass bell with a yellow tuning slide, their unique X wrap with their Free-Flow valve, a yellow single bore slide with a nickel crook, and a standard yellow brass 9” leadpipe. Then, I played various passages on both instruments, with the same mouthpiece. What I found is the Rath felt restrictive, and really closed up on certain partials, and had a brighter sound than what I thought it did. The Voigt was extremely open, very flexible, and no responsiveness issues like the R4 had. And the sound was just mellow and rich in the soft range, and really held up without breaking in the loud extremes. My wife (who is also a trombonist, and has an R4 of her own) instantly said “you have to buy this horn.”

I ordered the 188FXG and it came to me, via Houghton Horns, about 7 months later. I played on it about 3 weeks and contacted Martin Voigt. I found that I really liked everything about the instrument, but the extreme volumes were just a little hard to focus. I asked if I could get another leadpipe, same material, but make it 2” longer. To my surprise, I received it from Germany in about 2 weeks. That was exactly what I needed… and… he sent it to me at no charge. I was blown away. I immediately asked if I could officially become an endorsing artist for them and, after presenting my resume and discography to them, they agreed.

I never wanted to be an official artist for any manufacturer until I ran into the Voigt family. They not only are producing a superior product in a world with many excellent trombones already being made, but they are personable, kind people who listen to their customers. And they go the extra mile to make the customer happy. For them the sale is only the beginning, not the end game. They are passionate about their craft that has their name.

I’ll say it again… when the opportunity comes up, give these Voigt instruments a try. They are special.