Two different Conn Director 16H trombones

[tedthetrumpet]

I don't know if this is interesting to anyone else except me, but… I have two 'Conn Director 16H' trombones that are completely different!

The one I own is serial number GE670076, which I decipher as May 1976. It has a .485 bore and a 7.5 inch bell.

The other one I have access to is GC971299: March 1979. This one is .500 bore and an 8" bell.

The construction of the two horns is different, and, needless to say, they play quite differently as well.

I believe the Conn brand was moved around between various owners during that period, so maybe explains it. Still… I guess of interest to know that there are two versions of the '16H Director' out there.

Any thoughts?

[Mamaposaune]

Well, since no one else took a shot at this, I'll throw in my .02, but I realize I'm "on loose ground." First, I checked a Conn serial number list, and only saw the prefix GA, which spanned from 1973 to 1979; no GC or GE.
I've also heard that Conn did not keep reliable records during those years, so it would not be surprising to find conflicting info. But it seems as though GC would have pre-dated GE, no?
I know the original Directors had a .485 bore and 7 1/2" bell, and the model # was 14H. (I have 2 that date from the late 50's - early 60's)
At some point they went to a .500 bore with an 8" bell, I think they were then re-numbered 16H, and they replaced the 14H. When? I'm not sure, but I believe it was during the later Elkhart years. It doesn't help that the Directors were never marked Elkhart, Ind. (Neither were the 6H's.)
The 16H was eventually replaced with the 18H, again, I don't know when, but IMO they were not of the quality of the older 14H's and 16H's.
More to follow, When I have a chance I'll dig out my 2 Conn catalogs.

[BGuttman]

On this era of Conn trombones, the prefix G indicates decade (1980s). The first digit represents the year. The second letter indicates month, and the remaining digits represent the number within the month (I don't think they ever granulated to days in that serial number.

14H, 16H, 18H, 22H, 23H, and 24H were sold as Directors at various times (note that there were other trombones with the same model number in other years -- Conn was notorious for reusing model numbers.

I think that 14H was a brass instrument and 18H was the Coprion equivalent. After the period in Abilene (I think) the student instrument bells were resized from 7½ inches to 8 inches and bore brought to 0.500 inches.

It was always rumored that the Director instruments were made from parts that didn't meet spec for their "Pro" equivalent (originally 4H and 12H, later 6H and 10H). The market for student instruments was much larger than pro instruments, so it would seem that the opposite was more likely the case: the best parts of this size were allocated for the Pro line and everything else was used for the Student line.

[Mamaposaune]

Not sure if this helps, but here are descriptions of the Director taken from a 1955 and a 1979 catalog.
(Pics below)
So the earlier 18H's had a 7" coprion bell but were otherwise identical to the 14H which had a yellow brass bell.
Interestingly, the only Director in the 1979 catalog is the 16H. Note it has a .500 bore and a 7 1/2" bell.
Your question is perplexing - was Conn changing the specs of the Director models during that decade? It would appear so, based on your two examples. Perhaps they were just assembling instruments from whatever parts that were available, some of which may have been left over from earlier eras?
It would be very interesting to hear from someone who worked at the factory during that period.

[Mamaposaune]

Conn Director descriptions from 1955 and 1979 catalogs.

[tedthetrumpet]

For serial numbers, I'm going by the info on the bottom of this page:

https://www.horn-u-copia.net/serial/Connlist.shtml

Conn 16H Director (mine)
serial GE670076
G = 1970s
E = May
6 = 1976
7 = trombone
0076 = 76th instrument in May?
bore .485
bell 7.5

Conn 16H Director (different one)
GC971299
G = 1970s
C = March
9 = 1979
7 = trombone
1299 = 1299th instrument in March? (seems unlikely)
bore .500
8" bell

Whatever it is, I really like my '16H' – it's perfect for me as a trumpet refugee playing lead trombone in amateur big bands.

The other '16H' – I don't like it. Bland, lacking in character, slide positions are different, can't find a mouthpiece that feels right. But I only use this one for practicing when I'm at work.