Shires Pro select mouthpipe

[Nomsis]

I have a shires pro select with silver bell which is my main horn for over 10 years now and I love the sound of it, additionally I'm somewhat emotionally attached to it. But for quite a while now (many years) I think that this trombone makes it unnecessary hard to start notes, high register feels hard as well, valve register feels great though. Sometimes I feel like I must really force the note to start.

You might think that's a me problem which of course might be true but I feel more like it's not true. I don't feel the same on any of my other (too many) brass instruments. Two years ago a very good pro player (low brass, but not mainly trombone) was in trouble as he destroyed his trombone (an older yamaha model) and so I lend my trombone for a gig. As he brought it back he told me without me asking that it was sounding good but it was hard to play. I checked the instruments for leaks, valve seams to have very good compression still and cork is fine as well. Also I regularly clean it. I had no large bore to compare so far but recently I bought an old straight king 4b and it feels much easier to play. I did experiment a little bit and put the king 4b slide on my shires, using some paper on the tenon to make it fit and it played much easier. So now that makes me think the problem might be in the slide or especially in the mouthpipe. Currently I'm using the one that my trombone came with.

So the question is, if I want to experiment with mouthpipes, will regular shires mouthpipes fit my trombone? Which ones will fit in general and which ones do you recommend for solving my problem? I have no experience at all with different moutpipes. Please consider I have a low budget at the moment and I'm living in Germany. I would preferably buy used (I'm ready for hunting) or at least in such a way that I can resell without a big loss if it does not help me out. There are some edwards pipes right now which I could buy for a decent price, will they fit?

Any general comment about the situation is appreciated as well.

[Nomsis]

Or should I go hunting for an entire hand slide? Which ones will fit or at least would be very easy adaptable to fit? If I see something for a decent price and it will not help I can always resell without loosing much money. I'm open for general experimentation in the limits of my tight budget. For mouthpieces I mainly play Josef Klier exclusive 6c but have a few different sizes available. I did try a few mouthpieces from other players but as far as I can say from those experiments the problem seems to live in the trombone (slide).

[wayne88ny]

You should have specified that your bell is silver plated, not sterling silver.

Check out the youtube videos regarding leadpipes.

Is there a shires dealer in your area where you can try leadpipes.

The regular shires leadpipes will fit your slide. There should be a number on your leadpipe (probably 2, the most common leadpipe) Since low range is easy and high range is difficult, try a 1 or a 1.5 leadpipe. I'd also try the Vintage Elkhart leadpipe. For that matter, try a Shires 2 leadpipe; leadpipes can be inconsistant. MK drawing sells leadpipes that will fit Shires slides. Kanstul leadpipes will also fit (Horn Guys may have some). Instrument Innovations sells a course thread (Shires) to fine thread (Edwards) adapter for $22.00 if you want to try some Edwards / Getzen leadpipes. Horn Guys sells the Getzen leadpipes for $100. The classified forum is a good place to shop for used leadpipes.

[Nomsis]

Sorry, I should have been more precise, it's true that is silver plated not sterling silver. When the trombone was pretty new there were some serious problems with the lacquer on the bell and it needed to be redone anyway by the shop were I bought it so it was a special offer to silver plate it.

Thanks for your very helpful answer, gives a great overview. Buying in the US seems always a bit complicated for me but I now emailed instrument innovations for the adapter, so I can react more flexible when I see something on the market. Is there any disadvantage when using such an adapter? Does anyone know of a regular place for leadpipe shopping in Germany/Europe?

[tkelley216]

There are a lot of great instrument makers and techs in Germany. Before investing in a $100+ leadpipe, you should bring your horn to one and have them look it over. They might have some leadpipes to try and can make some small adjustments to your leadpipe.

[Nomsis]

There are a lot of great instrument makers and techs in Germany. Before investing in a $100+ leadpipe, you should bring your horn to one and have them look it over. They might have some leadpipes to try and can make some small adjustments to your leadpipe.

Sure but going to one would be quite some journey to me and wouldn't be all things considered necessarily be cheaper than shopping for some used leadpipes. I trust the techs relatively nearby to me for some dent work and similar stuff but not necessarily for some advanced trombone trouble shooting, I wasn't even aware that a leadpipe could have some "hidden" damage. Of course it could have cracks or holes or something but I can't see anything like this.

For now I could find an used edwards leadpipe for a fair price and when it arrives I will try if it solves the problem or at least makes a considerable difference. From there I will see how to go on.

[Nomsis]

Some update: The T2 Edwards leadpipe has arrived and I have play-tested it. It feels better, but I'm still not completely satisfied. I couldn’t test it properly, though, because the leadpipe adapter is still on its way across the ocean. I just put it in carefully without screwing it in.

A big problem I had with the original leadpipe (which I forgot to mention specifically in the OP) was the midrange, starting from B natural up to E in the staff. Those notes really didn’t speak well. With the Edwards T2, it’s better, but still feels a bit harder than I think it should be to start the note.

In the meantime, I’ve taken another careful look at the original Shires leadpipe and noticed it was slightly out of round at the end. While inspecting it very carefully, I even saw a small crack at that spot. So I went ahead and cut off about 7mm from the end. I’m pretty happy with the result so far — much better than its original state. The problem notes in the midrange are pretty much gone, the instrument feels a bit more open overall, and the low register — down to the trigger and pedal range — feels even better than it already did. The high register also feels a bit more secure, though I’m not completely sure about that. At least it hasn’t gotten worse.

Now I’m thinking about taking off another 3–4mm…

With this additional data points, any comments about what I could do or in which direction I should think?

[WGWTR180]

Once you start cutting parts there's no going back. You have mentioned quite a few issues in various ranges of the instrument. It's either you or it. You'll have to spend the time investigating. As others have mentioned start with lead pipes. If nothing works and you have started cutting pipes which have been play tested and are currently being used by many players successfully across the world I'’d maybe look at the bell. Silver plating something can drastically change the way an instrument responds. If that doesn’t work and your other instruments are working for you why continue to play this?

[Nomsis]

I wouldn't have cut it if not for the crack, I think a crack in a leadpipe even if pretty small is subotimal so I was thinking, what risk is in cutting if I'm not really happy anyway?
Maybe my posts are a little bit confusing and if so I'm sorry But I'm not thinking my setup it is terrible, just not completely happy and so I'm thinking about ways to improve it. Though I own a couple of brass instruments this is my only quality large bore. Except maybe my newly acquired king 4b but it has no f-attachment and is not exactly in great condition. So there is no real substitute I could use.

About the silver plating, it's to long so I really can't remember how it played before, I would really be curios to try it again. I was much younger then and I think I'm a much better player now than I was then so even if could remember maybe I could not really compare. I saved up for quite long and did work on a farm at age 14 to buy this trombone and I think it really boosted my motivation for practise. So with this and all the years playing it I'm really attached a little bit I can't remember when exactly I was starting to think that the setup feels a little hard to start notes, but sure it is for a few years now.

I'm in no hurry at all, so I will watch what is available and if I will not find anything satisfying I will maybe need to plan a trip to a shop where I can try a few different pipes. In the meantime I was thinking maybe the wisdom on the forum could point me in the right direction.