K Tongue Modified aka Anchor Tongue

[cigmar]

I recently stumbled upon articles describing and advocating this type of tonguing. As a freshman in college I took a lesson with Reinhardt. In addition to typing my embouchure he also mentioned I have a long tongue and should be using an anchor tongue. He had planned to introduce this in subsequent lessons. But being in college, I neither had the time he demanded to be practicing nor the financial resources to continue. So I regrettably only took one lesson. But reading these articles decades later has piqued my curiosity. The articles were geared toward trumpet players. Is this style also applicable to trombonists? Does anyone use this style of tonguing or have any thoughts for or against? Any and all input welcome and appreciated.

[BGuttman]

I went to a mater class by Jerry Callet where he talked about "anchor tongue" and to imagine "spitting out a small seed". I tried his technique and the mouthpiece he sold me for a couple of months before deciding they weren't for me. I guess that's part of the learning game. I liked Callet as a person and admired his trumpet playing (he was pretty thick with Charles Colin), but was underwhelmed by the trombone he brought with him to sell.

[LeTromboniste]

I went to a mater class by Jerry Callet where he talked about "anchor tongue" and to imagine "spitting out a small seed". I tried his technique and the mouthpiece he sold me for a couple of months before deciding they weren't for me. I guess that's part of the learning game. I liked Callet as a person and admired his trumpet playing (he was pretty thick with Charles Colin), but was underwhelmed by the trombone he brought with him to sell.

No, that's very different thing. So-called Tongue-Controlled Embouchure (TCE) is what you describe, which has the tongue anchored against the bottom lip, past the teeth. This has big implications on both overall embouchure and method of articulation (the spitting hair/seed thing).

Anchor Tongue / KTM has the tip of the tongue anchored behind the bottom teeth. Embouchure is in principle not directly affected, it's the articulation that differs from more conventional approaches, with the T articulation done not with the tip of the tongue behind the upper teeth, but with the middle of the tongue against the roof of the mouth (depending on who you ask, contact point might be behind upper teeth, alveola, or somewhere on the hard palate)

[cigmar]

In theory it seems this style utilizes the K articulation used in multiple tonguing throughout. So I'm not sure how this would be employed in double and triple tonguing. However, I think it may be useful when subtle entrances with a less explosive attack are called for.

[Doug Elliott]

It's actually possible to pronounce "D" a little back from the tip while keeping the tip anchored. And if you have a long tongue you can still pronounce "G" behind that. So multiple tonguing that way is possible, for some players. I tried it and decided it wasn't going to work for me. I moved everything back instead of forward.

That style of tonguing, if it works for you, can be particularly useful in the very high range to create a stable focus that's pretty difficult any other way.

Articulation is different for everybody and you just have to experiment with the possibilities and see what looks promising.

[cigmar]

Thanks Doug. I was hoping you'd chime in.

It's actually possible to pronounce "D" a little back from the tip while keeping the tip anchored. And if you have a long tongue you can still pronounce "G" behind that. So multiple tonguing that way is possible, for some players. I tried it and decided it wasn't going to work for me. I moved everything back instead of forward.

I can see that. Tried it but also didn't seem to work as well for me.

That style of tonguing, if it works for you, can be particularly useful in the very high range to create a stable focus that's pretty difficult any other way.

That also tracks since the articles and videos were geared toward trumpet players especially ones that wanted to become screech players.

Articulation is different for everybody and you just have to experiment with the possibilities and see what looks promising.

I have experimented a little, maybe not enough to abandon it, but I don't see the rewards/benefits off-setting the time and effort. I'm somewhat an old dog and difficult to teach new tricks to.

(Doug edited to fix the quotes)

[tbdana]

Just for kicks I tried it, and it was surprisingly easy and clear, even with double- and triple-tonguing.

Didn't work at all with doodle-tonguing though, at least not for me.

Seems legit. I can't see why a person would need to tongue this way, but it works.

[BPBasso]

Seems legit. I can't see why a person would need to tongue this way, but it works.

I believe it was a technique created as a solutions for those with rather long tongues.

[cigmar]

I believe it was a technique created as a solutions for those with rather long tongues.

Exactly! That's why Reinhardt recommended I use it, as I explained in my original post. I never followed through with it though, also for reasons I explained.

[LeTromboniste]

Just for kicks I tried it, and it was surprisingly easy and clear, even with double- and triple-tonguing.

Didn't work at all with doodle-tonguing though, at least not for me.

Seems legit. I can't see why a person would need to tongue this way, but it works.

Yup, it works really well, but definitely makes doodle impossible, for me.

It had been years since I had really given much thought about where my tongue strikes, until I started teaching and trying to help students solve some problems. Now trying to notice things when I'm in the middle of playing, I believe that I sometimes do spontaneously use that anchored position for "d".

[Mamaposaune]

I found it interesting that Doug mentions using the "D" syllable farther back in the mouth, because this is what I found helpful when practicing very soft exposed entrances, experimenting with tongue and jaw position. (I was playing the bass 'bone part in the Dvorak 'Cello Concerto; the 2nd movement calls for pp chords in the trombones; then an exposed ppp low G in the bass bone and tuba coming at the end of a beautiful, delicate quasi-cadenza in the 'cello) I ended up keeping my jaw almost clenched shut and starting the note with a soft "doo" for that low G. It felt strange, not the way I usually articulate, but it worked and I may do some more experimenting to see if I can get more comfortable with it.

[Wilktone]

Reinhardt made note of a number of different ways to tongue, some of which might be defined as "anchor tonguing" and others that might be considered half way there.

For me, I've found that articulating more typically, with the tongue tip striking behind the upper teeth and gums, works best. But when I slur or sustain notes I've consciously adopted snapping the tongue tip to the gully behind the lower teeth and gums and anchoring it there. I can articulate with the tongue tip anchored there, but it's not very controlled for me and, like others have noted, I have trouble with doodle tonguing this way. This approach is maybe between the more typical tonguing style and the anchored tonguing. The tongue position for slurring and sustaining darkens up my tone somewhat, which is my main reason for adopting this tongue type.

Dave

[cigmar]

I ended up keeping my jaw almost clenched shut and starting the note with a soft "doo" for that low G. It felt strange, not the way I usually articulate, but it worked and I may do some more experimenting to see if I can get more comfortable with it.

This dovetails with what I thought this anchor type tonguing might come in handy when a very subtle entrance is called for.

[cigmar]

But when I slur or sustain notes I've consciously adopted snapping the tongue tip to the gully behind the lower teeth and gums and anchoring it there. .

Dave

Are you saying that when legato slurring you use the anchor tongue in that you keep the tip behind lower teeth and lightly articulate a "D" with middle of tongue. That sounds interesting. Will have to try it.

[Wilktone]

Are you saying that when legato slurring you use the anchor tongue in that you keep the tip behind lower teeth and lightly articulate a "D" with middle of tongue. That sounds interesting. Will have to try it.

Not quite. I articulate more typically, with the tongue tip striking behind the upper teeth or further back, as if I'm saying "da" or "doo," depending on the register, etc. But for sustaining a pitch or while slurring the tongue tip snaps to the gully behind the lower teeth and gums and gets "anchored" there. The level of tongue arch is controlled by pushing forward with the tongue while keeping the tongue tip anchored there.

When I re-articulate the tongue tip comes back up to behind the upper teeth/gums.

If you keep the tip behind the lower teeth and articulate with the middle of the tongue that is what can be defined as anchored tonguing.

[tbdana]

I think most of us eventually learn various articulations with the tongue. Some sharp, some soft. Obviously, Dave is talking about using a soft articulation on legato slurs, which is exactly right. I also use a soft tongue in legato slurring, but mine is more like the D sound in anchor tongueing where I use the same part of my tongue that I use when speaking the D; i.e., not the tip, but a little farther back, touched to the roof of the mouth.

Whatever method of getting that sound that works best for "you" is the method "you" should use.

[cigmar]

Here's a recent discovery. When I attack in the upper register, say 3rd line G and above, using an anchor tongue clarifies the attack, is easier, adds stability, just all around much better. I suspect all that's due to the middle of the tongue already being in position to direct the airflow for that register. Conversely, attacking in the low register with an anchor doesn't work for me at all.

[heldenbone]

This style of articulation aids me in getting more reliable starts to low pedals - F, E, Eb, D... Funny enough, this "dorsal tongue" style is helpful on trumpet high register playing also. I have a quasi-"long tongue" that I think is the result of orthodontal intervention many (many) moons ago in high school. The orthodontist chose to remove the four eye teeth (upper & lower, left & right) then pull back all the remaining front teeth. The dorsal articulation keeps the sound freer and more open, but seems to still allow some air velocity on trumpet.

[MBurner]

I’ve been a long sufferer of the Valsalva curse- I’ve done a lot to fix it, but still hesitate, nearly 10 years after first experiencing it.
So, I start phrases with a K tongue. Problem solved. If you’re a sufferer like me, give it a shot.
It’s also super helpful, to me, for large range gaps- going from the low triggers to above Bolero Bb? Sure, you don’t do it often, but when you do, k tongue for the second note for me clears up the articulation and opens up the airflow.

[cigmar]

It’s also super helpful, to me, for large range gaps- going from the low triggers to above Bolero Bb? Sure, you don’t do it often, but when you do, k tongue for the second note for me clears up the articulation and opens up the airflow.

Yes!!!

[JTeagarden]

I eventually found for myself that the idea of a "T" and "D" syllable for staccato and legato playing was utterly useless, if I actually place my tongue in these positions (basically, with the tip of the tongue laying largely flat against the ridge behind the upper teeth), the embouchure response is horrible, and such a placement only works halfway well in the middle and upper registers.

My placement is with the tip of the tongue (my tongue is on the shorter side) touching the tips of my upper teeth, slight arching at around G 3 ledger lines above the staff.

No teacher ever suggested this, and for years I played around with this placement, thinking is can't be right, since I've never heard of this.