What makes it a doubling bass bone?

[oshkosher]

I've been playing tenor for a long time, and I'd like to get a bass trombone. I talked with Edwards about coming in to try out some horns, and since I'll probably continue to primarily play tenor, they said they'd set me up with a doubling horn. How would a doubling bass trombone differ from a regular bass trombone?

[Burgerbob]

Probably a single bore, rotors, maybe a 1 leadpipe. I wouldn't read too much into it.

[hyperbolica]

I've been playing tenor for a long time, and I'd like to get a bass trombone. I talked with Edwards about coming in to try out some horns, and since I'll probably continue to primarily play tenor, they said they'd set me up with a doubling horn. How would a doubling bass trombone differ from a regular bass trombone?

There's the double rotor thing, but I think what they were talking about was doubling tenor and bass. I would guess that they would probably set you up with something lighter and smaller in some ways. Probably rotors instead of axials, lighter bell, maybe not the widest slide, possibly even a 547/562 slide with a smaller leadpipe. Something setup for a brighter commercial sound instead of a big woofy symphonic horn. You'd be better off to ask them directly, but I think this is generally what they would offer you.

[JohnL]

Probably a single bore, rotors, maybe a 1 leadpipe. I wouldn't read too much into it.

9½" bell too, most likely.

[tbdana]

I have no idea what a "doubling" horn is. But I dislike even the characterization. Like it's not for a "real" bass trombone player, or it means that you're not a "real" bass trombone player. Inferior. Cheap. Imitation. Limited.

I play tenor trombone and bass trombone. I don't think of myself as a "doubler." The moment I do, I've given myself an excuse not to sound good, and I've lowered expectations in others. It's a defeatist mindset IMHO. Don't be a doubler. A "double" is simply a term used to pay you extra money for playing more than one instrument on a recording gig. And I certainly don't want an inferior horn just because I may be less experienced on bass than I am on tenor.

It's a mindset thing.

/soapbox

[WGWTR180]

I have no idea what a "doubling" horn is. But I dislike even the characterization. Like it's not for a "real" bass trombone player, or it means that you're not a "real" bass trombone player. Inferior. Cheap. Imitation. Limited.

I play tenor trombone and bass trombone. I don't think of myself as a "doubler." The moment I do, I've given myself an excuse not to sound good, and I've lowered expectations in others. It's a defeatist mindset IMHO. Don't be a doubler. A "double" is simply a term used to pay you extra money for playing more than one instrument on a recording gig. And I certainly don't want an inferior horn just because I may be less experienced on bass than I am on tenor.

It's a mindset thing.

/soapbox

100% agree. You either play bass or you don’t.

[Matt K]

I agree with Aidan on this one... when I'm doing a lot of doubling, my preferences change. When I'm focusing exclusively on something, my preferences also change. I had a year where I subbed for a bass trombone player who had double knee replacement a TON. My preferences for what I liked in a bass (and tenors for that matter) changed when I was playing that much bass. When I'm doubling, I make different choices. Generally, I find that when I'm doubling or focusing on small tenors, things like Aidan said, like a 1 leadpipe are better for me. IMO I don't think it's defeatist to have preferences for some equipment over another based on current context.

[Finetales]

It's not that serious.

"Doubling horn" generally just means a middle-of-the-road horn that's easy to play. Doesn't have a lot of quirks to learn, works in all contexts. It absolutely doesn't mean a "real" bass trombonist wouldn't play one, or that it's somehow inferior.

I don't think of myself as a "doubler." The moment I do, I've given myself an excuse not to sound good, and I've lowered expectations in others. It's a defeatist mindset IMHO. Don't be a doubler.

You and I have very different ideas of what the word "doubling" means.

[tbonesullivan]

I'm pretty sure Edwards knows what they are talking about. Just saying.

Also do does James Markey, and he calls it doubling. Some may remember that he was originally associate principal of the NY Phil before moving to Bass trombone, and was still playing tenor while auditioning on bass.

[brassmedic]

Don't get a "doubling" horn. Just get a good bass trombone.

[MStarke]

It's probably just a wording question.

Totally in line with all the others saying "just get a bass trombone". However it CAN (not must!) be helpful if it's somewhat similar to your tenor preferences. E.g. same type of valve(s), same slide and bell material.
And while a dual bore slide, very open valves and leadpipe etc. can be tempting to a tenor trombonist - as it initially may feel easier in the very low register - I would generally recommend to go for a somewhat moderate setup. Remember bass trombone is 95% NOT playing pedal notes.

I am sure Edwards would get you sorted.

[TomInME]

It speaks to the arrogance / ignorance of many tenor players that they think doubling on bass is easy and / or that they're doing it well. There's plenty of overlap between tenor and bass (and that goes both ways), but when the going gets rough, the vast majority of doublers come up short. The ones who don't, have respect for the differences and difficulties.

A "doubling" bass won't be much different from a "real" bass, for that reason. If anything, it might be a bit smaller so that the air requirement isn't quite as extreme as a full-time bass player might accept. But you'll still have to do the work.

[hyperbolica]

As someone who struggles with tenor/bass doubling, and recognizes my own limitations on bass that I don't have on tenor, there are some basses that are easier to play for people oriented toward tenor. Some people can play trumpet, french horn, tuba, euph, tbone and really don't care much about switching. But not everyone is that way. I had trouble switching from 5g to 6.5al. Anything that decreases the difference between bass and tenor is a doubling instrument for people who struggle with that kind of change. I'm ok on bass up to a certain point. I can pass as a bass player as long as there's not some long fast passage down in the double triggers, or there's a lot of trigger switching between all combos. You want a nice low D? I sound like a pro. You want 1/16th notes more than 1 ledger line down, go hire a real bass bone player.

[tbonesullivan]

It speaks to the arrogance / ignorance of many tenor players that they think doubling on bass is easy and / or that they're doing it well. There's plenty of overlap between tenor and bass (and that goes both ways), but when the going gets rough, the vast majority of doublers come up short. The ones who don't, have respect for the differences and difficulties.

A "doubling" bass won't be much different from a "real" bass, for that reason. If anything, it might be a bit smaller so that the air requirement isn't quite as extreme as a full-time bass player might accept. But you'll still have to do the work.

I mean, from Edwards, it will always be a "real" professional level bass trombone, but it's probably not going to be the same bass they recommend for someone playing in a professional symphony orchestra, or auditioning for one.

[harrisonreed]

I'm honestly not sure the "real" dual bore, humongo bass trombone is the way to go, to begin with. Even if you play bass full time.

[MStarke]

It speaks to the arrogance / ignorance of many tenor players that they think doubling on bass is easy and / or that they're doing it well. There's plenty of overlap between tenor and bass (and that goes both ways), but when the going gets rough, the vast majority of doublers come up short. The ones who don't, have respect for the differences and difficulties.

A "doubling" bass won't be much different from a "real" bass, for that reason. If anything, it might be a bit smaller so that the air requirement isn't quite as extreme as a full-time bass player might accept. But you'll still have to do the work.

While the first part of this answer sidetracks a bit from the initial question, I can kind of follow the sentiment.
I know multiple people who own a bass trombone and in some circles successfully impress others with that big bell and dual valve thing. But when getting even just into a Brahms symphony, it's getting tricky for them...

[ZacharyThornton]

Just trust them to set you up with a horn that will work great. They will go into it with an open mind; Jesse and Christan are experts.

[Elow]

I don’t think you could go wrong with an edwards, I think they are some brand you would want to avoid as a doubler. All the quirky vintage horns wouldn’t serve you well, edwards would be the right place to look for a non-quirky bass trombone.

I wouldn’t discredit a dual bore slide either, it works very well with the B502 design

[DCIsky]

I have a Shires bass and tenor, and I go between them pretty regularly. At the moment, the setups are pretty similar: single bore slide with #2 pipe, medium-ish mouthpiece in the grand scheme of things, axial valves, tighter tuning slide, yellow bell. I would honestly consider this bass to be more of a doubler horn.

This makes a lot of the intonation and blow tendencies similar enough to me that I just apply a different sound concept. Most people don’t realize I’m a doubler until I tell them, and even fewer notice enough about my playing as a doubler to ask me about my differences in equipment for tenor vs bass. Which to me, feels like the end goal as a professional blower into metal tubes.

[blast]

I don’t think you could go wrong with an edwards, I think they are some brand you would want to avoid as a doubler. All the quirky vintage horns wouldn’t serve you well, edwards would be the right place to look for a non-quirky bass trombone.

I wouldn’t discredit a dual bore slide either, it works very well with the B502 design

All the quirky vintage horns......wow !! Bit of a statement there.

[jpwell]

+1 for Jesse.
Great guy

[WGWTR180]

I don’t think you could go wrong with an edwards, I think they are some brand you would want to avoid as a doubler. All the quirky vintage horns wouldn’t serve you well, edwards would be the right place to look for a non-quirky bass trombone.

I wouldn’t discredit a dual bore slide either, it works very well with the B502 design

Some of this advice is laughable.

[Matt K]

I don't think Elow meant that all vintage horns are quirky... but there are some very quirky vintage horns... bear in mind that 1980 was 45 years ago. At this point, I would consider that vintage. If I were recommending something blind, I would absolutely recommend a new Edwards over a 1980s Bach. Maybe not EVERY 1980s Bach, but certainly many of them.

[MrHCinDE]

A doubling horn in this context might be one that costs significantly less than a new Edwards, and leaves the rest of the budget for (additional) lessons/workshops etc.

Since the OP stated they expect to primarily play tenor, perhaps the gear is only part of the story and they may get better results by buying a used middle-of-the-road horn and finding an excellent bass teacher.

I‘m very far from being a good bass player, but having lessons every couple of weeks for the past few months has improved my playing more than any new custom horn would.

[Elow]

I will stand by what I said… I’ve played THE vintage models. I’ve got an Elkhart 62H and a MV 50 right now, and they fall short to my B502.
Same thing with the tenor T396AR, completely outplayed my MV42 in every way. I would say it’s a more modern design equipped to tackle the demands of new rep.

Also, I have grown up with a completely different sound concept and playing approach than the generation who grew up playing old Bachs, Conns, Holtons, Olds and such. Of course I going to find the sound I want on the same equipment as my influences.

[hyperbolica]

.... I would say it’s a more modern design equipped to tackle the demands of new rep.

Ok, that's bs. Maybe you like Edwards over other stuff, but making "new rep" part of it is ridiculous. "New rep" is mostly the province of small bore. Even if you're talking "new classical" rep, that's tiny against the previous 600 years of music.

You can say you like Edwards, but invoking "new rep" is silly.

[SwissTbone]

.... I would say it’s a more modern design equipped to tackle the demands of new rep.

Ok, that's bs. Maybe you like Edwards over other stuff, but making "new rep" part of it is ridiculous. "New rep" is mostly the province of small bore. Even if you're talking "new classical" rep, that's tiny against the previous 600 years of music.

You can say you like Edwards, but invoking "new rep" is silly.

As you probably know I absolutely love vintage trombones. One of the best bass trombones I've ever played was a 70h. But try playing championship section brass band test pieces on a 70h and you will soon want a modern bass trombone in your hands.

So I think Elow has a - small - point here. There's more than only orchestra out there.

[brassmedic]

Modern bass trombones that have the same bore size, same basic leadpipe design, same diameter bell, same number of valves, and same diameter valve section tubing as vintage bass trombones, have magic properties that allow you to play modern music on them.

[hyperbolica]

You can't reduce non-Edwards horns to 70h quirks. Modern music is not just brass band competition, and "everything else" is not just orchestral music. Lots of music careers come and go without touching either one of those. You're describing a specific corner, not a generality. I've played a lot of modern music on my Elkhart 88h, and a lot of old music on my Kanstul 1662i.

[MStarke]

What you probably can say is that "modern" horns like the current Edwards or Shires models may be a bit easier to play. But the Elkhart 60h/62h that I own is so very much playable that I would absolutely not hesitate to bring it to any sight reading gig that may come up. It's not quirky at all. yes, it may require just a little bit more efforts to make it work, but that's totally worth it.

A 70h is obviously something else with the single valve. yes, I would not bring it to a brass band, brass/trombone ensemble or big band gig without knowing the music in advance.

[Elow]

There is a certain way that the bass trombone sound concept is going and there are new demands being asked. To be specific, I don’t think you can achieve the same sound in the upper range. The ability to color the high range with such brilliance is something I have only found on my edwards. The soft extremities is another part where my edwards sticks out. It’s the exact same sound that you can take from FF to just barely audible. In the chamber music and solo rep I play, this control can really elevate a performance.

I hate to derail the thread… but yeah you can play the same notes. It won’t sound the same, and right now I want to market my sound in the same way as the successful bass trombone players in this time.

[Posaunus]

Modern bass trombones that have the same bore size, same basic leadpipe design, same diameter bell, same number of valves, and same diameter valve section tubing as vintage bass trombones, have magic properties that allow you to play modern music on them.

Psst. Brad - it's the secret proprietary modern brass alloy that Edwards fabricates their bells from.

[Matt K]

Well, there is definitely something about the in-vogue combinations that most of the boutique makers are making that does set them apart in my experience, which is why I tend to play 'modern' horns myself, despite having owned good playing vintage ones in the past. For example: A medium-weight, two-piece, soldered bell bead bell with a middle-of-the-road leadpipe and Thayer valves tends to be very easy to play (both for bass and tenor). That combination couldn't have even existed any earlier than the mid-80s, and most horns of that era were not that. There isn't anything metalurgically impossible that restricted Bach, Conn, or others from making something like that in the 80s or earlier but... well, they didn't.

[WGWTR180]

There is a certain way that the bass trombone sound concept is going and there are new demands being asked. To be specific, I don’t think you can achieve the same sound in the upper range. The ability to color the high range with such brilliance is something I have only found on my edwards. The soft extremities is another part where my edwards sticks out. It’s the exact same sound that you can take from FF to just barely audible. In the chamber music and solo rep I play, this control can really elevate a performance.

I hate to derail the thread… but yeah you can play the same notes. It won’t sound the same, and right now I want to market my sound in the same way as the successful bass trombone players in this time.

But yet you have derailed the thread because it started out as what makes a doubling bass trombone and you turned it into “All about me(you).

[Elow]

Okay scratch everything I’ve said. The best doubler bass trombone is the one that you own, they all make the same notes.

Okay but seriously, this was about design choice for a doubler. My opinion is that the modern designed basses have characteristics that make it more comfortable for a doubler.

[Kdanielsen]

I bought an Edwards 502-I with yellow bell to use as a bass doubler. I eventually switched from the single bore slide to the dual bore. As primarily a tenor trombonist I couldn’t be happier with this horn.

FWIW I agree with pretty much everything Elow said.

[blast]

Okay Elow, I suspect that I was playing on Edwards bass trombones before you were born, so I know what they are like. I moved on to other horns a long time ago, not because the Edwards horns weren't great...they were, and recent ones play even better. It's a taste thing. BUT, this is not what the thread is about....it's about DOUBLING on bass trombone. You recommend an Edwards with a duo bore slide. Fine answer to some questions, but it's a thoughtless answer to this one.
I'll need to give an example. Our principal trombone was asked to play on a film recording, and play tenor and bass. He didn't have a bass, and asked me for help. I loaned him a Conn 71H, as it was very easy blowing, recorded well and was like a big version of his 88H. A second valve was not needed. It did the job for him. A solution for high-level work at short notice. Someone else may have needed a different solution. A duo bore big belled solution. The doubling instrument needs to fit the player and the situation....that's the real answer to the question. What that means for an individual, they have to find out.
As for us oldies not making a 'modern' sound, you might well be right. I don't like a LOT of what I hear these days. I make a sound that fits the section, and the orchestra. That's not old, or new. It's just doing my job.

[Burgerbob]

Okay but seriously, this was about design choice for a doubler. My opinion is that the modern designed basses have characteristics that make it more comfortable for a doubler.

[slidefunk]

A doublers horn is one that you can afford that gets the job done.

[WGWTR180]

A doublers horn is one that you can afford that gets the job done.

Yes. That’s the point people should be making. Buy something that works for you. Modern, old, quirky, whatever.

[Posaunus]

A doublers horn is one that you can afford that gets the job done.

Yes. That’s the point people should be making. Buy something that works for you. Modern, old, quirky, whatever.

[ddsbstrb]

Back in the day (1970's) I had always heard the early Olds inline Bb-F-G bass trombones, like Ernie Tack and others played was a nice horn for a tenor player to use for bass trombone playing gigs. It has a 9" bell with more for commercial usage in those days. My go to horn, to get back into playing after layoffs like cataract surgery or a year off during COVID, was my Elkhart 62H. It was definitely lighter to hold up than my Greenhoe-Bach 50B. I was in my late 70's and not as physically strong. I had always used a Greenhoe "thumb hook" to help hold the Greenhoe-Bach and did use a NeoTec strap on the Conn. Arthritis was getting into my hands and fingers, in later life.

Lots of great points being made by all!

[blast]

Back in the day (1970's) I had always heard the early Olds inline Bb-F-G bass trombones, like Ernie Tack and others played was a nice horn for a tenor player to use for bass trombone playing gigs. It has a 9" bell with more for commercial usage in those days. My go to horn, to get back into playing after layoffs like cataract surgery or a year off during COVID, was my Elkhart 62H. It was definitely lighter to hold up than my Greenhoe-Bach 50B. I was in my late 70's and not as physically strong. I had always used a Greenhoe "thumb hook" to help hold the Greenhoe-Bach and did use a NeoTec strap on the Conn. Arthritis was getting into my hands and fingers, in later life.

Lots of great points being made by all!

Nice to see you posting Denny...you were a stalwart of the old forum. Are you well ?

[harrisonreed]

Ok, that's bs. Maybe you like Edwards over other stuff, but making "new rep" part of it is ridiculous. "New rep" is mostly the province of small bore. Even if you're talking "new classical" rep, that's tiny against the previous 600 years of music.

You can say you like Edwards, but invoking "new rep" is silly.

As you probably know I absolutely love vintage trombones. One of the best bass trombones I've ever played was a 70h. But try playing championship section brass band test pieces on a 70h and you will soon want a modern bass trombone in your hands.

So I think Elow has a - small - point here. There's more than only orchestra out there.

Yeah I don't buy this stuff about vintage horns being harder to play all of the time. The Holton I'm using right now is superior to the huge dual bore air hog modern basses I've tried. I do like the single bore Edwards slide, but my experience still wasn't as solid on that as the Holton (probably axials vs rotors).

It's actually nice to have a slot. It's nice to let the horn do the work. I think a lot of modern bass design is informed by monster players who can *force* the horn to do whatever they want. They might not even really realize how much they are doing that. That might be great for them -- they certainly sound outstanding. But I'm looking for the horn to help me get a solid slot so I can adjust pitch with the hand slide and not work hard. Dual bores with 10" bells don't do that for me.

I really want to try a duo gravis, I bet I would really like that as a doubler.

[SwissTbone]

As you probably know I absolutely love vintage trombones. One of the best bass trombones I've ever played was a 70h. But try playing championship section brass band test pieces on a 70h and you will soon want a modern bass trombone in your hands.

So I think Elow has a - small - point here. There's more than only orchestra out there.

Yeah I don't buy this stuff about vintage horns being harder to play all of the time. The Holton I'm using right now is superior to the huge dual bore air hog modern basses I've tried. I do like the single bore Edwards slide, but my experience still wasn't as solid on that as the Holton (probably axials vs rotors).

It's actually nice to have a slot. It's nice to let the horn do the work. I think a lot of modern bass design is informed by monster players who can *force* the horn to do whatever they want. They might not even really realize how much they are doing that. That might be great for them -- they certainly sound outstanding. But I'm looking for the horn to help me get a solid slot so I can adjust pitch with the hand slide and not work hard. Dual bores with 10" bells don't do that for me.

I really want to try a duo gravis, I bet I would really like that as a doubler.

Hmmmm I wasn't aware all modern basses are 10 inch dual bore monsters. That's definitely not what I understand when I talk about a modern bass.

I also could see myself using a good old Holton or a fine vintage Bach 50b in a setting I discussed above. But you have to find one without quirks. Modern horns tend to play more even, more predictable. Maybe that's a quality too when you're playing all that very loud and technically challenging stuff.

[tbonesullivan]

I really want to try a duo gravis, I bet I would really like that as a doubler.

As long as the linkage has been split, it should be fine. I think one of the biggest concerns that I would have with the older horns is the ergonomics of the trigger, and paddle if there is one. All the DGs I have tried previously had the original side by side triggers, and they were somewhat hard to move and clanky compared to my Yamaha basses. Sound wise however I had no complaints, though other people in the area might have disliked the paint peeling off their walls. It was really designed to be a fantastic commercial horn. Alan Raph played one for decades, though his had a Silversonic bell, which probably took a bit of the edge off.

My experience with other vintage horns has been mixed, and almost always about the ergonomics with the left hand, and not the sound or blow. Dependent or Independent doesn't really matter that much to me, however I definitely have encountered more new music that really is a lot easier with an independent setup. Some composers seem to think a trombone is the same thing as a cimbasso.

[hyperbolica]

I really want to try a duo gravis, I bet I would really like that as a doubler.

Yeah, DG, that's a doubler bass.

I've been playing a Kanstul for 11 years, which I would guess qualifies as a "new" bass bone. It was "inspired" by the Conn 62h, but doesn't play like it at all. I don't find it particularly friendly as a doubler. You have to push it hard in a lot of cases, but it does get a good sound. The high range is highly mouthpiece dependent.

The best double horns that I've played have been the Duo Gravis, one particular Bach 50 and a custom Conn 7xh. I elected to keep the Kanstul over those just because the people I play with most like that velvet Kanstul sound. The Kanstul has changed my tenor chops, and not for the better. I'd guess that a good doubler horn wouldn't do that.

Edwards makes a wide range of stuff, and I have no doubt that it's possible to set up an Eddy that's fairly light and responsive. I've liked the playability of the Edwards I've played, and I do get the sense that the market is swinging back in the Edwards direction and away from Shires/Eastman, and probably for good reason.

The thing I don't like about the Edwards is all of the bracing. Not that it's over braced, just that each brace is bigger (read heavier "edge bracing") than it needs to be. Plus the extra weight of the harmonic bridge on some of them. To extend their automotive metaphor, they're taking an F-350 and trying to disguise it as a Ranger. But it still has that F-350 weight and mpg and diesel stink.

Kanstul and Rath minimize bracing, and seek to emulate what's great about legacy instruments, which was part of the reason why I chose a Kanstul when I bought a new bass. The Kanstul is still heavier than the older basses I've owned.

But after reading the first couple of paragraphs on Edwards 502-i website, it's possible Elow has just fallen into the marketing zone, which I suspect is the heart of the situation here. The people who steer the development of most pro level horns are far away from my actual day-to-day skills and needs. I don't need that kind of heavy work truck. A small truck I can use as a daily driver would be my ideal bass bone. The closest to being a tenor as possible, while still with a good sound into the pedals and double valve range. Something I can blow air into efficiently.

[atopper333]

I can see points from Elow…and I agree with Harisonreed’s statements concerning vintage vs. modern horns, but I think the statement by hyperbolica rings the most true to me in reference to marketing.

I started on a YBL-322 and had to sell due to financial issues. Once the opportunity came up to try/buy a double I tried some and bought two horns due to believing I needed a double…but the skill level is simply not there.

I then proceeded to purchase an almost mint YBL-321. If my research is correct, this model stopped production in 1979 which would put it in the vintage category.

It is a bass…the bore size, bell size, bell taper…it’s all bass…and it sounds like a bass. It maybe doesn't have the full authority of sound as a double horn with a dual bore slide or a ‘monster’ bass trombone, but let’s just face it, even if I had that tool I wouldn’t be able to use it that way or accomplish that anyway. The 321 allows me to start working on those principles and techniques to play a bass trombone while allowing me to have the ability to fill that role in a community band or jazz band setting in a stretch, and it is something that I can work with given my experience level with bass trombone. I feel the 321 is an excellent doubler’s bass as for me it has as a beautiful sound which is different then my tenors, and it gives me something that I can at least work with to start developing my skills. It’s probably one of the best if not the best horn I’ve owned.

I’d liken it to having my full sized 1/2 ton truck cause I simply do not need a 3/4 ton truck yet if ever. The 1/2 ton still does truck stuff, and the 321 definitely is rather close to tenor, not the same but close.

[slidefunk]

When I shadowed Jim Lutz in the Beetlejuice pit, his double was a modified YBL 612 he says had bought off Andy Martin. The book was maybe 60/40 tenor to bass and he sounded incredible on all the bass stuff.

If you plan on playing a lot of bass trombone and it's within your budget, by all means drop $7k on a boutique horn. It will be a really great horn. But for the odd occasion when you need one, a 612 will probably run you $1500 and sound pretty darn good.

Heck you can even upgrade and get a 613 for just under $2k:
https://share.google/yrqxVT2MCoNHkdd6t

[JohntheTheologian]

I have a Yamaha YBL322R and I like it very much. I'm definitely a doubler and it's not a hard transition between a large bore-- I have a Blessing B88 and a Yamaha 643II.

The YBL322R definitely sounds like a bass bone and its ergonomics are good for me. I also appreciate that it's so much lighter than any double trigger horn I've held. Heavier than either of my large bore tenors, but still manageable to someone 75 years old and beginning to get arthritis in my hands.