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Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:16 pm
by ttf_anonymous
After not playing for about 10 days due to illness, I started playing again a couple of days ago and immediately developed a soreness/stiffness in my left forearm and bicep -- i.e., both side of the elbow, but not the elbow itself.  It takes only a few minutes for this to set in, and as far as I can tell I'm doing nothing differently from before and am using the same horn (a Bach 12, pretty light).

Any ideas why something like this might suddenly kick in?

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:31 pm
by ttf_BGuttman
Probably some residual weakness from the illness.  Give it a few days of light duty.

When I had my auto accident they had me doing exercises with a 2 pound dumbbell.  Maybe you should do some of that.  The actions were curls, rotations with extended arms, press from the shoulder, "pot stirring" (both hands), swing from right hip to extended over left soulder.  Sets of 10 or 20 reps, never to exhaustion.  A good PT could show you all the exercises you need.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:50 pm
by ttf_bobroden
Thanks, Bruce.  Hopefully it will just fade away after a few days, unless of course it's old age setting in.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:50 pm
by ttf_bobroden
A week later now and the left arm problem has not abated.  It's sore enough that I skipped practice altogether today just to give it a chance to recover a little.  Achy enough to bother me at night.

I guess I'll have to talk to someone, but I'm not sure who even deals with this sort of thing.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:14 pm
by ttf_Ellrod
Physician, physio.


Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:21 pm
by ttf_greenbean
You might ice it 4-5 times a day.  And make an appointment to see a physician ASAP...

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:26 pm
by ttf_Doug Elliott
Probably backhand tennis elbow, which will take months to go away even if you take care of it.  It only takes one time lifting something too heavy or the wrong way to injure it.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:28 pm
by ttf_BGuttman
At this point you probably need to have a pro look at it.  I don't know if your insurance works like mine, but I have to have my Primary Care  Physician refer me to any specialist.  You might need an Osteopath, or maybe just a Physical Therapist.  If there's a medical problem you may need treatment.  If it's just muscle strain a PT can help.

Meanwhile, NSAIDs (Aspirin, Tylenol, Aleve) can make you more comfortable; although they won't fix the problem.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:33 pm
by ttf_Ellrod
Quote from: Doug Elliott on Apr 12, 2017, 05:26PMProbably backhand tennis elbow, which will take months to go away even if you take care of it.  It only takes one time lifting something too heavy or the wrong way to injure it.

 A few years ago, I had soreness in my left elbow when playing bass trombone. It was later diagnosed as impingement in the left shoulder. I've also had right-sided tennis elbow. It took months to clear up.

The treatment protocols are rest, ice/NSAIDs, see your doctor, get a referral to physio,  and follow their advice.

NSAIDs include Aleve (naproxen?), Advil (ibuprofen), and Indocid. Tylenol (acetaminophen) is something different, not an anti-inflammatory. Not sure about aspirin. Ibuprofen and naproxen are the usual go tos.



Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:54 am
by ttf_baileyman
Quote from: bobroden on Apr 12, 2017, 04:50PMA week later now and the left arm problem has not abated.  It's sore enough that I skipped practice altogether today just to give it a chance to recover a little.  Achy enough to bother me at night.

I guess I'll have to talk to someone, but I'm not sure who even deals with this sort of thing.

A masseuse who deals with athletes would be a good place to start.  They can usually feel what is going on, and they can tell if you need something beyond massage. 



Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:05 pm
by ttf_bobroden
Just to update my story here:  my doctor diagnosed it as tendonitis.  I have both tennis elbow and golfer's elbow (i.e., outside and inside of the forearm).

I stopped playing entirely 15 days ago, and have rested my arm as much as possible and iced it every night, but so far really no discernible improvement. 

So I have a feeling it's going to be a long slog waiting it for it to heal to the point where I feel comfortable easing back in to playing.  I acquired an ergobone, but it doesn't yet allow me to play; just holding my left arm up to balance the horn is too much.

If you've had tendonitis, how long of a rest period did it take before you saw real improvement?  I know experiences will vary, but I'd like to get a sense of what's typical.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:27 pm
by ttf_Doug Elliott
Several times over the years I have had the same injury from lifting suitcases.  It usually hurts for several months as it gradually heals.  It never goes away quickly.  Just don't re-strain it with any fast motions or heavy weight.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:15 pm
by ttf_hyperbolica
Quote from: bobroden on May 04, 2017, 02:05PMJust to update my story here:  my doctor diagnosed it as tendonitis.  I have both tennis elbow and golfer's elbow (i.e., outside and inside of the forearm).

I stopped playing entirely 15 days ago, and have rested my arm as much as possible and iced it every night, but so far really no discernible improvement. 

So I have a feeling it's going to be a long slog waiting it for it to heal to the point where I feel comfortable easing back in to playing.  I acquired an ergobone, but it doesn't yet allow me to play; just holding my left arm up to balance the horn is too much.

If you've had tendonitis, how long of a rest period did it take before you saw real improvement?  I know experiences will vary, but I'd like to get a sense of what's typical.

What you describe in your original post sounds exactly like what I'm going through, although I'm also playing bass bone. I just endure it, trying to take it easy when I can, trying to sit with my left elbow fully extended as much as possible when not playing. I realized that I can play euphonium to keep my chops going without aggravating the elbow. Also for me, I'm trying to lose some weight. I think the extra weight I've gained on my arms physically prevents my elbow from bending. My tendonitis didn't start until I started playing again after laying off for 10 years, during which time I also gained some weight. I think it was initially caused by sleeping with my arm folded up sharply underneath me.

If I could go a month without playing, I think it would mostly heal, but I'm not willing to do that.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:22 pm
by ttf_Ellrod
It took months to clear up, but I was mostly able to play through the symptoms.

Your physio will give you exercises. Do them.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:48 am
by ttf_harrison.t.reed
Docs are coming to the conclusion that icing an injury is not a good practice.

Compression and possibly heat (bloodflow) is what helps you heal.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:01 am
by ttf_bonenick
It depends on the nature on the injury, but generally icing is not a good thing to do, except in some very specific cases.  compression is good as harisson said.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:06 am
by ttf_harrison.t.reed
KT tape

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:14 am
by ttf_Gabe Langfur
Talk to your doctor about a prescription for Occupational Therapy.

I'm going through the same thing. The initial injury had nothing to do with playing, but playing aggravates it and I had to take some time off and then play a single valve bass for a while. OT got me back to where I could manage it, and a year later it still flares up from time to time.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:39 am
by ttf_Bellend
I have a very similar problem that has all but stopped me playing , luckily I have a friend who is an Osteopath who has helped tremendously but healing is a slow process.

Here's an interesting video showing research being carried out in to these sort of problems at the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRSf_dCod8

BellEnd

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:16 pm
by ttf_bobroden
Thought I'd give a quick update on the problem that led me to start this thread.

First, thanks very much to all who have responded.  These are tough situations and all help and support are welcome.

The problem continues.  It has been diagnosed as tendonitis, including both the "tennis elbow" (outside part of forearm) and "golfer's elbow" (inside part of forearm) varieties.  As best we can determine it was caused by some heavy lifting I did when I was in a weakened state from a bad chest cold.  Rest, daily icing and using a tennis elbow band (as advised by my doctor) did not fix or even improve it.  Neither did acupuncture or Feldenkreis treatment.  Finally I connected with a PT (at Kaiser) who started me on an exercise routine with a device called a Flexbar.  Studies apparently have shown this to be quite effective in general for this problem. 

I was told I would see no improvement for the first two weeks, then significant improvement in weeks 3 and 4, and then should be completely back to normal by weeks 6 to 8.  I am just now completing week 5, and overall I have seen maybe a little bit of improvement, but not a lot.  I put my horn away on April 19 and have not been able to play it since; it is still quickly painful simply to hold the horn in playing position.  I'm not anywhere close to being able to play again at this moment.

I tried the Ergobone device but it doesn't help; the problem isn't the weight of the horn, it's just holding my arm up in playing position.  I have the same pain when trying to button a shirt collar.

I've been keeping myself relatively sane by working on arrangements for a jazz group I'm in the midst of assembling.  It's a challenge with a long-term injury like this to keep a good attitude about it, but I do OK most of the time.

I continue to do the Flexbar exercises and consult with the PT; hopefully that process will still work but is just taking longer than usual in my case.  Meanwhile, I have an appointment this week with a sports medicine doctor to see if he can suggest anything.  I'm hoping perhaps as a sports person he'll have more of a "get them back in the game" orientation.

The only advice I can pass along so far as a result of this experience is to seek care as soon as possible when something like this arises.  If it's going to be a long, slow process, better to get started on it right away.

Once again, thanks for all the input, much appreciated.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:08 pm
by ttf_oslide
How about mounting a valve trombone or the like on a stand and playing without any involvement of the affected arm? Simply to keep in some sort of shape.

At any rate, good luck!


Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:16 pm
by ttf_Ellrod
Buy a euph?

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:01 pm
by ttf_bobroden
Thanks for the suggestions.  I actually did buy a flugabone, hoping that I could use my Ergobone device to support it and play with just my right hand.

I found that the weight of the horn was too much for the Ergobone; the horn kept wanting to tilt left/right or forward/back.  I also found that, separate from the support issues, it was just a whole different animal to play.  The lower range was difficult for me and overall it was stuffier than a trombone.  In other words, it didn't feel like it was going to be a lot of fun.  So I gave that up and turned to arranging to fill the gap till I'm back on the trombone.

It was seductive to think of pursuing a valve-based, one-handed alternative, but for me, at least, it wasn't a viable substitute.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:38 am
by ttf_Blowero
Quote from: bobroden on Jul 02, 2017, 12:16PM  Meanwhile, I have an appointment this week with a sports medicine doctor to see if he can suggest anything.  I'm hoping perhaps as a sports person he'll have more of a "get them back in the game" orientation.
I had a similar problem back in college, although I don't think it was as extreme as what you're experiencing. I went to a doctor who specialized in sports injuries and he was extremely helpful. So I think that's a great idea. Let us know what happens.

Sudden Left Arm Soreness

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:38 am
by ttf_Blowero
Quote from: bobroden on Jul 02, 2017, 12:16PM  Meanwhile, I have an appointment this week with a sports medicine doctor to see if he can suggest anything.  I'm hoping perhaps as a sports person he'll have more of a "get them back in the game" orientation.
I had a similar problem back in college, although I don't think it was as extreme as what you're experiencing. I went to a doctor who specialized in sports injuries and he was extremely helpful. So I think that's a great idea. Let us know what happens.