Bring Flat Horn Up to Pitch

[Lhbone]

I have a MV Bach that’s plays on the flat side. I spoke with two different techs about it and wanted to get opinions on here. One tech said to remove the material at the tuning slide, and I believe the other said to do it at the slide receiver (I think where the nut is). Thoughts from our techs on here about the best place to remove some tubing?

[Burgerbob]

Tuning slide receivers and a matching amount from the tuning slide legs. Absolutely necessary on a Bach with a long slide.

[JohnL]

...I believe the other said to do it at the slide receiver (I think where the nut is).

Doesn't sound like a very good idea to me; there's very little room to take length out in that area.

Like Aidan said - trim the tuning slide.

[AtomicClock]

If it really does play flat, one would think it would have been fixed by now. Unless it was stored in an attic for 60 years.

[Burgerbob]

If it really does play flat, one would think it would have been fixed by now. Unless it was stored in an attic for 60 years.

They're usually fine with a 6 1/2AL, which was a big tenor piece at the time.

[OneTon]

How flat (how many cents) is the instrument with the tuning slide pushed all the way in and the hand slide in the closed position? Or, how far is the tuning slide pulled out for Bb with the handslide in the closed position on a tuner set for A = 440? What mouthpiece is being used? What model of Bach trombone is it?

[elmsandr]

How flat (how many cents) is the instrument with the tuning slide pushed all the way in and the hand slide in the closed position? Or, how far is the tuning slide pulled out for Bb with the handslide in the closed position on a tuner set for A = 440? What mouthpiece is being used? What model of Bach trombone is it?

Old Bach tuning slide legs are like 5/8” or 3/4” longer than current production. Somewhere I have a picture of all of them stacked up that shows this.

Probably double check, but it probably needs to be cut.

As for trimming the handslide receiver…. I personally believe this part is too long on 42B and 50B horns… but a replacement there in my opinion is to make room for a larger more modern valve and not change the overall length of the horn or lose neckpipe length. Not something you do to adjust the pitch of the horn.

Cheers,
Andy

[harrisonreed]

Cutting a horn that plays flat generally improves the playing characteristics. Cut it so that you go a bit past where you want (so you can tune to 443). This way you can play long on the slide if you want, which will improve how the horn lines up.

[pfrancis]

Cutting the tuning slide legs is probably the most common practice. I suppose you could even replace the parts and keep the originals if altering MT. Vernon bothers you; allowing it to be put back to “original” condition. All of that said it does necessitate shortening 4 tubes while remove material from the receiver is just one, albeit with much less length available to be taken.

If the cut needed is not too long I think the receiver idea is a clever one. I was just working on a corp era 45B and was thinking how long that part looked.

Given the choice I would probably choose the slide though.

[Burgerbob]

Cutting the receiver changes the bell position. That seems like an absolute no go for me.

[GabrielRice]

I have had to have the tuning slide legs cut on every Bach I've ever owned (except a 36B I had briefly in high school and used ones that had already been shortened).

[Kbiggs]

Another Bach player here. Yes, cutting the tuning slide legs, both the inner and outer tubes, will help bring the horn up to pitch. Also, ask the tech to re-install the trim rings at the end of the outer tubes. My opinion: those trim rings make a subtle but noticeable difference in the sound and response of the horn. YMMV.

Like Gabe, every Bach I’ve owned I’ve had to ask a tech to trim the tuning slide legs except my current 42. It plays at a=440 with the slide out about 1/4”. Like Harrison said, trim enough so that you can play at a=443.

[brassmedic]

Cutting the receiver changes the bell position. That seems like an absolute no go for me.

+1

[Lhbone]

Thanks all for the feedback. To answer a few of the questions that popped up, the horn is a MV42b, and it has had no modifications. With the tuning slide pushed all the way in, a Bach 5G sits in tune or up to 5 cents flat, depending on the temperature of my office. My current piece (Hammond 12MXL) and my old piece (GB Alessi 5.5) sit about 10-15 cents flat.

I'm going with the tech who suggested to do it at the tuning slide, so that makes me feel a little better. Didn't even think about the bell position changing.

Good points all around. Thank you!

[elmsandr]

As has been said 8n some other threads, a great way to do this is to remove the outers and trim the end that goes into the ferrule. Better control to make the cut and you preserve the trim rings. Also, a lot of those joints have terrible fitment, yes even the NY and MtV built horns can be terrible under those ferrules.

Cheers,
Andy

[tbonesullivan]

I have had to have the tuning slide legs cut on every Bach I've ever owned (except a 36B I had briefly in high school and used ones that had already been shortened).

My experience is the opposite, and I usually have to have my bachs out about 1 inch on the tuning slide to be in pitch. I'm playing using Laskey 59MD 59D, Hammond 11ML and L mouthpieces, and a DE setup on my 36B.

So it really depends on the player.