“If only I had known….”

RustBeltBass · Post by **RustBeltBass** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:24 pm

A serious trombone student will learn most things from their dedicated teachers, master classes, books, etc.
but some things are taught “on the streets”, meaning in the real, professional world. Sometimes the hard way.

If you could give ONE piece of real world advice for young players taking their first steps out there, what would it be ?

And to clarify: Nothing about trombone playing directly. No embouchure, air, tongue, etc. pedagogy related stuff. Just little things you wish someone had told you that could have made your life easier, if that makes sense.

Shamelessly, I will start with two of these advices.

1. Alto cleff is still a very, very really thing (even on bass trombone), especially if the parts are older.

2. ALWAYS have a backup mouthpiece sitting in the glove compartment of your car.

Post by **BGuttman** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:58 pm

Early is on time.
On time is late.
Late is fired.

One other thing: if they need help setting up, pitch in.

keybone · Post by **keybone** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:30 pm

Good enough isn’t.

WilliamLang · Post by **WilliamLang** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:40 pm

If you want to freelance, once you reach the minimum standard for professionalism, networking matters more than improvement. Go see shows and meet people.

Always bring two pencils, one for you, one for someone else.

Kbiggs · Post by **Kbiggs** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:59 pm

Be nice. Get along. Don’t be an @sshole. This industry is tough enough without having to deal with @ssholes.

And yes—bring a pencil or two.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:42 pm

As previously noted:
• Get along. Smile. Be humble but confident. Be friendly. Be respectful. Network.
• Show up early - and prepared!
• Have a check list for gigs, with all the stuff you may need (lube, spray bottle, pencils, tape, extra mouthpiece, mutes, light, necktie or bowtie, eyeglasses, trombone stand, music stand, ...). And use it. {I forgot my stand light at an outdoor gig last week. Oops!}

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:14 am

Carry a spare music stand in your car. Maybe even two...

Fidbone · Post by **Fidbone** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:24 am

Let your playing do the talking.

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:11 am

1) Music is much more enjoyable as an avocation - doing it professionally tends to take the joy out of it.

2) if you ever volunteer to play bass trombone you may never escape back to the tenor world

stewbones43 · Post by **stewbones43** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:25 am

Your hero, whoever he or she might be, is only human just like you are and once was at the level that you are currently at, so keep practicing.......more!

Cheers

Stewbones43

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:47 am

No matter how good you are, there's someone warming up in the hallway outside the venue (studio, stage, etc) who can blow you away. Learn to not be upset by that fact. You can learn a lot by playing with trombonists above your class.

GabrielRice · Post by **GabrielRice** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:10 am

Love this topic. Here are some excerpts from an annual talk I give at school about building a freelance career.

I. Musical Concerns

Focus and clear pitch center are always more important than size of sound.

If you are not one of the gifted people born with an unshakeable groove (I’m not), work hard to hone your rhythmic skills.

Know your role in the ensemble. If you are hired to play in a section, always defer to the principal, even if you think you are a stronger player. If you have a question for the conductor, ask the principal player; it’s their job to ask the conductor, not yours. If there’s a clear moment for you to shine, go for it 150%; the rest of the time it is your job to make everybody else sound good and feel comfortable.

Especially while you are in school: play chamber music, play chamber music, and then play more chamber music. You learn so much about ensemble playing and performing from chamber music, but also about interpersonal relations – how to talk to each other, how to give and take criticism without hurt feelings, etc. These skills are essential to every musician.

Sight reading is usually not stressed enough at school. Make yourself do it! Sight reading parties with friends are great ways to have fun and improve everybody’s skills.

II. Extra-Musical Concerns

Make it a habit now to keep an accurate calendar. Keep everything about your schedule in it, as far into the future as you know. Have it with you 100% of the time. Double-booking yourself IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Make it a habit now to respond to phone messages, texts, and emails in a timely manner. 24 hours is the absolute longest anybody should have to wait for you to respond to an email, and that timeframe is shrinking all the time. If you do not know yet whether you can take the gig for whatever reason, respond right away anyway to say so and ask for a day to work it out.

Make it a habit now to smile and greet people, even – especially – janitors, waitstaff, and other people who (probably) can’t advance your career. “I don’t trust anyone who’s nice to me but rude to the waiter. Because they would treat me the same way if I were in that position.” – Muhammad Ali

Strive to be a genuinely friendly person. If you tend to be shy and this doesn’t come naturally to you, then you will have to work a little harder at it, but don’t go so far that it feels insincere. Insincerity is always obvious. Think twice before saying anything negative about another person, and then don’t say it.

Make it a habit to express gratitude and appreciation to people. Contractors and conductors do appreciate being thanked for the opportunity. Other musicians crave appreciation and consideration just as much as you do.

It has been my experience that generosity comes back around.

III. Once You Have a Gig

Show up early. I target a half hour at a minimum; more if I have to travel more than an hour or during rush hour. Warm up at home if at all possible.

When you’re on the gig, don’t show off…until the music asks for it, of course. If you have an audition coming up and you want to be practicing excerpts in the breaks, use a practice mute or confine yourself to the soft ones while you’re around other people. Ditto solo repertoire.

Show up prepared. This should go without saying, but if you don’t have to be sight reading, don’t be. Bring any mute you might need. If you don’t know, bring them all (well, most of them). Have a pencil and an eraser.

At some point you will have to cancel on a gig you’ve been called for; you might actually get sick, you might have an actual emergency; it happens. In any case, always be truthful about it, always let the contractor know as soon as you know, and always offer to find a replacement. Unless it’s an actual last-minute emergency, do not send a sub without talking to the contractor first! This will lead to hurt feelings; I can tell you from experience.

Always recommend subs who play at or very close to your level. If you can send somebody better than you, go ahead and do it. It does nobody any good to recommend somebody for a gig they are not ready or not suited for, and it certainly doesn’t make you look better to recommend subs who don’t play at a level comparable to yours.

In some places it is taboo to cancel on one gig in order to take another, but in many others (like Boston) it’s fairly common and very few contractors take it personally. Find out what the custom is where you live and want to work, and always, always, always be up front and honest.

And always know that by canceling on one gig to take another, you are telling that contractor their gig is not at the top of your priority list. I have certainly lost gigs this way, but I made my choices, I’m happy with them, and I am still friendly with those contractors. And in many cases friends and former students of mine do that work.

Finally, remember that you chose to be a musician because you love it. The more appreciative you are of the opportunities presented to you, the more positive your attitude in every situation, the more people will want to have you with them on their gigs.

norbie2018 · Post by **norbie2018** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:38 am

A guide to getting hired/hired back:

1. Play with a good sound and in tune.
2. Show up to the gig prepared (on time, correct uniform, mutes, etc.)
3. Be easy to get along with.

From my teacher Ed Kocher at DePaul University.

Macbone1 · Post by **Macbone1** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:40 am

Maybe some overlap here but:

1. BE ORGANIZED. No worse feeling than showing up without your music (if it's your responsibility) or without the right mouthpiece, for example. If you know the music order ahead of time, set it up at home. Have all your mutes and a pencil ready...you might be surprised how many don't. Double and triple check yourself.

2. THINK SECURITY. I lost count of how many players who had their horns stolen out of their cars or from venues. And that's just the ones I heard about! DON'T store your horn in the cabin of your car where it can be seen! Hatchback trunks are also really bad unless the horn fits under the privacy cover. Keep your horn IN SIGHT at all times at venues, esp in big cities.

3. BE THE EXCEPTION. Any butthead can play loud, fast or high. Play musically, to the phrase, play the dynamics and try to anticipate the conductor's wishes. Have ears for the ensemble. If you play bass trombone, DELIGHT EVERYONE by not dragging the beat.
This is all standout behavior. All of these will put you in the top 10% of players (whether the gig pays or not)

Post by **Matt K** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:49 am

Biggest one for me is drones. I could have gotten way farther way faster just by playing basic melodies in tune for a few minutes every day.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:03 am

Forte doesn't always mean forte, but piano pretty much always means piano.

WilliamLang · Post by **WilliamLang** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:04 am

I'm going to bookmark this page for everything Gabe said!

Wilktone · Post by **Wilktone** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:29 am

A lot of excellent comments, but many are also ones that (I feel) should be also handled in school. For example, showing up on time with all required equipment and being prepared is something that any school ensemble should be emphasizing already. School ensembles provide a "safety net" of sorts for students when the screw up, but when they do there should be some consequences and they should be taught that in a professional situation those repercussions would be more severe.

Just to offer some ideas that haven't been brought up, consider stage craft.

Don't blow notes on stage just before the performance, save that for off stage.

If you're heading up front to blow a solo don't walk in front of the current soloist on your way to the mic.

Learn how to announce pieces slowly and clearly.

Learn how to use a microphone properly, at the very least, and even better, learn the basics on how to set up and run a sound system.

Learn how to organize a set list and program concerts.

Develop some basic arranging skills.

Be ready to learn music by ear as well as being the best sight reader you can be.

The more versatile a musician you are, the more opportunities you have to find meaningful work.

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:38 am From my teacher Ed Kocher at DePaul University.

I studied with Dr. Kocher for a couple of quarters when I was at DePaul (92-94). Great trombonist, teacher, and all around great person. I've lost touch with him, I should look him up.

Dave

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:12 pm

Gabe has a really great list.

Some more detailed stuff that slips by most student's attention:

If you are performing, you are being watched and listened to. Be aware of the noises you make- setting down mutes, water bottles, flipping your horn around. Self awareness in general will get you far.

If other people are playing and you are tacet, fade into the background visually. Don't fidget or catch attention unduly. I have to be especially aware as a bright blond, myself!

Empty your spit, definitely- but be aware of how you do it. Not everyone wants to watch and (especially) hear a huge stream of water come out of a slide. It pays to be surreptitious about it.

If you're counting measures and everyone else is playing a similar part around you, no need to be secretive about where you are to them. It's a team effort!

It's fine to give a leg shake or leg clap for a well performed moment by a colleague, but don't make it a habit either- then the absence of it becomes a negative comment. Reserve it for when it's meaningful.

I probably have more, but though it's been said here already... Don't be that guy playing loud on stage before rehearsal or a concert. Here in LA this will get your tires slashed.

Post by **Doug Elliott** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:31 pm

Carry something to let your water out on... I have a bunch of carpet samples I use for that, about the same size as a Manhasset stand top.

JeffBone44 · Post by **JeffBone44** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:46 pm

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:11 am 1) Music is much more enjoyable as an avocation - doing it professionally tends to take the joy out of it.

2) if you ever volunteer to play bass trombone you may never escape back to the tenor world

This is true. Just by virtue of owning a bass trombone I play it 90% of the time now. Which is okay, because I enjoy playing bass more anyway.

GGJazz · Post by **GGJazz** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:08 pm

Hi everyone.

A lots of really good advices in this thread .
In particular , I found the Gabe Rice post extremely interesting .

Unfortunately , not taking into account the advices and experiences of the previous generations seems to be a fairly typical human trait . I hope that many young students will follow everything was written above .

However , in my opinion , it can also be useful to warn about some of the pitfalls one can run into Music' World .

1) The Music' World is not a "heaven on earth" , in fact it is possible to find miseries more than elsewhere

2) Do not lose your true personality , and your soul . Always be yourself .

3)Do not be discouraged , and try to always move forward .
Sometimes you will be witness injustices , both towards you , and towards your colleagues . You have to overcome it .

4)Do not be psychologically submissive .
Apart from the work done in Orchestra /Big Band , ecc , if a principal trbn/ lead trbn has a different opinion from yours , such saying - for exemple - that J. Alessi is a bad player , if J. Alessi is one of yours heroes you have to gently contradict him , showing your point of wiew .

5) Be careful not to be "eaten" by the Music' World ( either in a good or in a bad way) .

Regards
Giancarlo

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:24 pm

I second what David said above -- nobody cares about what licks you know when you are supposed to be warming up for the concert. Shut the heck up.

Imagine blowing it on Bolero for the real deal after "nailing" it in your warm up on stage 50 times or whatever.

It's fine to play some notes to confirm the hall response (especially with people in it), and some lip slur intervals. But leave it at that.

For my 2¢, I would say don't get boxed in. There are a million ways to play any etude or piece musically. For your own music making, and your expression, don't just copy some other interpretation of a piece. You can even leverage tech -- have the computer play the piano part, and tap out the tempo you think you want while you sing. You might realize something about how to interpret a piece that you haven't heard before, and that is your chance to try something new with it.

RustBeltBass · Post by **RustBeltBass** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:17 pm

Hi everyone,

Great input from all of you. As a starter of this conversation I just wanted to point out that it doesn’t bother me at all if some points are being brought up by multiple members, if anything it helps stressing which points are the most critical ones. So keep them coming.

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:36 pm

Speaking mostly from the perspective of someone who is often called to play music that isn't written down:

Know when to take the lead.

Even if you are not the bandleader or a soloist, there will still often be situations on the bandstand where somebody needs to steer the ship or else there'll be a musical stalemate. If you're in a horn section, recognize when nobody in the section is taking charge and coming up with lines for the section to play and get on it. Same idea on salsa gigs: any time you're not playing on a vamp, you should be thinking up a moña and be ready to play it at a moment's notice. If the other trombone player(s) (if there are any) come up with one first and play it at you, great. But if they don't, it's your job to step in and lead. Listen, be flexible, and do what the music needs.

If you do any freelance work playing in pop/funk horn sections, learn how to not only write good horn parts, but be able to come up with them on the spot. Transcribe a ton of horn lines and practice writing horn parts to songs that don't have them. It is a language and requires as much shedding and study as anything else, and too many horn players think they can do it but haven't put in the work to do it well. Finally, whether or not you have perfect pitch, be able to play a line someone just played at you back after one listen. These skills have been some of my most valuable as a freelancer.

Other things:

- In many large scenes, being a good hang is at least as important as being a good player. Be fun to hang out with, in whatever way that looks for you and your personality.
- Always study the parking situation ahead of time and include time to park in your travel time. Pulling into a parking spot 30 minutes before downbeat might mean you actually get to your seat only 10 minutes before. If only street parking is available, add a bunch of extra time to park as you may not find a spot quickly and/or one that is close to the venue. Just because you park on time does not necessarily mean you'll make it to the gig on time!
- Learn how to play into a mic. Wilktone mentioned this already above, but mic technique is very important so it bears repeating. You may even need to do basic choreo while playing into a mic - that bell has to stay hard planted to the mic, no matter what the rest of your body is doing.

Lastly and most importantly:

PROTECT YOUR HEARING! Get some nice musician's earplugs and use them. Live music is loud. Sports bars are loud. Walking near a freeway is loud. It adds up, and you only get your hearing once.

tbdana · Post by **tbdana** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:52 pm

This is from Alex Iles, penned by his late wife, Sandy, for her flute students, but it applies equally to anyone.

afugate · Post by **afugate** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:40 pm

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:31 pm Carry something to let your water out on... I have a bunch of carpet samples I use for that, about the same size as a Manhasset stand top.

My wife got me some dish drying mats from the dollar store. Highly recommended. Light, cheap, and effective.

--Andy in OKC

Mamaposaune · Post by **Mamaposaune** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:17 pm

I will add - make sure your ear-training chops are well-honed so you can pick out melodies by ear, and be able to harmonize on the fly.
Sooner or later you will be in a situation where a request will be made for a tune, it could be anything from the National Anthem to Happy Birthday, and there will be no sheet music.

Post by **BGuttman** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:43 pm

Mamaposaune wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:17 pm I will add - make sure your ear-training chops are well-honed so you can pick out melodies by ear, and be able to harmonize on the fly.
Sooner or later you will be in a situation where a request will be made for a tune, it could be anything from the National Anthem to Happy Birthday, and there will be no sheet music.

I can relate to this. Two friends and I were walking back to our cars after a Memorial Day parade and we encountered a gang of Bikers (Harley Gang). We were 2 trombones and a tuba, but we got a bunch of taunts like "Hey, the band's here". We were told to "play something". Fearing for our lives, the other trombonist launched into "God Bless America". The tuba player laid down a bass line and I improvised a countermelody. The reaction was interesting to say the least. Guys stood at attention, saluted, and cheered. At the end of our impromptu concert they gave us some money, which we split 3 ways. My share was more than I was paid for the parade and concert we had just performed.

baBposaune · Post by **baBposaune** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:14 pm

Mark your music and be smart about it. Don't leave it to chance you will remember "next time."

Clear vertical lines over strong beats can help you navigate tricky syncopated figures, especially at fast tempos.

If you're not sure where to come in after long rests write cues in your part to help getting set to play, i.e., "trpt solo, flute" etc.

LISTEN.

Don't be afraid of being out of your comfort zone. If your part is a challenge, learn it. If you feel like everyone around you is a monster player and thoughts of "Why am I here?" creep in, know your part, listen, follow the section, the conductor, and just pretend you belong there. It won't take long until you feel like you do.

Matt Varho

ithinknot · Post by **ithinknot** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:44 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:43 pm Fearing for our lives, the other trombonist launched into "God Bless America".

Look, if you want a song that repeatedly mentions foam, it's one of the best

reznet · Post by **reznet** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:46 pm

probably obvious, but one of the first things that I forget about, especially when nervous/excited about a performance, is where to PARK. so yea, always factor in time to find parking and realize it might take a while depending on the venue.

afugate · Post by **afugate** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:22 am

reznet wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:46 pm probably obvious, but one of the first things that I forget about, especially when nervous/excited about a performance, is where to PARK. so yea, always factor in time to find parking and realize it might take a while depending on the venue.

And remember to mark where you park your car...

--Andy in OKC.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:46 am

reznet wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:46 pm probably obvious, but one of the first things that I forget about, especially when nervous/excited about a performance, is where to PARK. so yea, always factor in time to find parking and realize it might take a while depending on the venue.

These days the distance I have to drive, tunnels/bridges involved, parking and how far I have to schlep my gear are major considerations.

tbdana · Post by **tbdana** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:37 am

Practice at home. The rehearsal or gig is not the place for you to be learning.

If you can play it, shut up and play it. If you can't play it, go home and practice until you can, and let someone who can play it have the chair.

jazztonight · Post by **jazztonight** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:28 pm

If you're asked to "wear black," DO NOT WEAR WHITE SOCKS!

Do not wear sneakers with your black tux.

Always keep an extra bow tie with you if you're playing weddings. (As band leader, I've tossed an extra bow tie to guys a couple of times.)

If a gig calls for "concert black," and you don't have a black shirt, BUY TWO!

DO NOT bring a cooler filled with beer to a wedding gig. (That guy never got rehired.)

If you're a drummer, do not forget your brushes. (Geez.)

If you're a side man on a gig, DO NOT give out your business card to guests or family members. Refer them to the band leader, who should hire you if he/she gets a gig.

Do not accept tips if you're not the leader. If you're the leader and get a sizable tip, share it with your sidemen. They will be faithful to you.

If you're the best musician in the band, try to be humble. There will be times when you're the worst musician in an ensemble.

Don't call two ballads in a row.

Wilktone · Post by **Wilktone** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:14 am

jazztonight wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:28 pm If a gig calls for "concert black," and you don't have a black shirt, BUY TWO!

I've always thought that "concert black" attire for men meant a formal tux, while women would wear a formal ankle-length black dress.

But looking this up online now, I see some sources are listing "concert black" as meaning to wear all black. I'm not sure if this is a more recent interpretation of this term and its meaning is shifting, but if you are hired to play and the attire is listed as "concert black" you should make sure you understand which definition is intended. Better to ask first.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:34 am

Yup, if I hear concert black, I'm probably just in a black shirt and pants, no jacket. But it all depends!

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:48 am

My take:

Concert black = all black

Tux = tux

Does anyone do white dinner jacket? Summer gigs?

ngrinder · Post by **ngrinder** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 2:06 pm

Gabe! That was perfect.

I just want to share an anecdote from playing with Doug.

Right at the very beginning of the end of the pandemic, I was asked to do about a week of big band work. I had worked *so* sporadically since then, and I was ecstatic to have a gig, furthermore with a very good band.

Anyway, on the last hit of the run, we had an outdoor gig. I, being relatively ill prepared, brought my music stand, one dinky light, and 3 bad halves of a clothespin. We get to the venue, and not only is it blusteringly windy, the light in the gazebo had gone out.

Doug not only had about 50 AA batteries for our lights, he had those clear plastic stand protectors in his car, a dozen clothespins, and a few other things that made our lives much easier.

Be the one who looks out for your section, like Doug. Collaboration, not competition.

dukesboneman · Post by **dukesboneman** » Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am

And one really big thing (for me) , Music Communities in every city or are small and people talk
1)You are only as good as your word. If you took the gig and another one comes in, you are already booked.
That Band leader is counting on you to honor your word and be there.
I`ve worked with too many players that`ll dump gig X because gig Y pays $20 bucks more
2) When I lived up north I would occasionally hire players from the local Conservatory
Player A would show up to the rehearsal, then with out calling , Player B would show up for the gig.
I eventually stopped calling people at the College because this happened way too many times.
A couple times I sent player B home because I didn`t hire them and you just don`t show up to a gig
If you weren`t hired for it

One of my Teachers told me the following
1) ALWAYs be early
2) Know your styles (If it`s a Trad Band , don`t play like Rosolino)
3) bring your Mutes, stand, stand light etc..
4) If the Leader says to wear all Green, wear all green
5) Don`t try to play lead from the 3rd book
6) Don`t be an A**Hole

Wilktone · Post by **Wilktone** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:53 am

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am 2) Know your styles (If it`s a Trad Band , don`t play like Rosolino)

I'll second this one. I play with many excellent musicians who do such a great job playing stylistically. Some, well, not so much. It's frustrating to be the only player in a section playing 1940s big band who is using appropriate vibrato, phrasing, articulations, etc.

A while back the Tommy Dorsey ghost band was playing a free concert and I went, hoping to hear Buddy Morrow play live. Morrow was sick that night, so the rest of the band stepped up and covered the Dorsey solos and directed the band. They played great, but I could tell they were letting loose with Morrow's absence. Many of the soloists were bebopping over the changes and ultimately I didn't enjoy the concert so much because of the conflict between what the pre-arranged moments sounded like compared with the improvised solos.

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am 1)You are only as good as your word. If you took the gig and another one comes in, you are already booked.
That Band leader is counting on you to honor your word and be there.
I`ve worked with too many players that`ll dump gig X because gig Y pays $20 bucks more

Oh boy, I could share some stories, but here's a recent one. A few months ago I booked a big band and with less than a week before the gig 3 out of 4 of my trumpet players decided to bail, at least two admitted for gigs that paid better. One of those was my lead trumpet player and one of those was my lead backup. I was only able to find a single trumpet player of quality to sub, leaving me no choice but to change the gig to a combo show. I've since stopped directing this band, in a large part due to headaches like that. The new management of the band has decided that those three trumpet players will no longer play with us. Not because I insisted, but because they all knew what had happened and didn't want to deal with the same problems.

Bailing on a gig that you committed to, excepting for emergencies or illness, etc., will burn bridges. You might not think that a gig for gas money is worth worrying about, but those band leaders and other musicians will remember you for your unprofessional behavior and you'll loose better paying gigs in the long term.

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am 5) Don`t try to play lead from the 3rd book

And don't decide to become the "jazz" chair and solo when it's not in your part. One of the trumpet players I mentioned above had a habit of doing this. When the drum solo on Neal Hefti's "Cute" would come up he would play a solo because he wasn't listening closely enough to realize it was someone else's solo. Vocalist singing and he was resting? No problem he'd jump in and noodle behind the singer without asking first (and overplay while he was at it). If you want to blow a solo, ask first.

jazztonight wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:28 pm If you're a side man on a gig, DO NOT give out your business card to guests or family members. Refer them to the band leader, who should hire you if he/she gets a gig.

And if you're attending someone else's show hoping to network and play as a sub, talk to the bandleader first before approaching the other musicians to hand out your card.

And as long as I'm venting, a different one of those trumpet players I mentioned above decided on a private show to go out to the audience over our intermission and push his multi-level marketing scheme. I got an earful from the facility manager afterwards about that and had to talk with him about not doing that again. In retrospect it might have been better for me to just not hire him again, seeing as how it ended.

ngrinder wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 2:06 pm Be the one who looks out for your section, like Doug. Collaboration, not competition.

Yes. It's been mentioned to have extra music stands and such. I always keep a couple of spare music stands in my trunk and also keep some extension chords and clothes pins in my mute bag (which also usually lives in my trunk). I've worked with band leaders who come to rehearsal with a bunch of pencils to hand out to the musicians (but keep some pencils in your case).

Bach5G wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:48 am My take:

Concert black = all black

Tux = tux

Yeah, it seems like more people are going that interpretation. Poking around online most of the sites I see that refer to "concert black" as wearing all black seem to be school ensembles. Others refer to "concert black" for men being a tuxedo. "All Black" can mean black jeans and a black t-shirt, and some of the gigs I play where musicians wear all black that is appropriate. When I book something I try to be clear. Best to clarify if there's any doubt.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:01 am

“All Black" can mean black jeans and a black t-shirt, and some of the gigs I play where musicians wear all black that is appropriate. When I book something I try to be clear. Best to clarify if there's any doubt.”

As a friend used to say, “dress like you’re getting paid.”

tbdana · Post by **tbdana** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:18 am

There is some super interesting stuff in the below. I'm going to play devils advocate on a bit of it.

Wilktone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:53 amd
dukesboneman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am 2) Know your styles (If it`s a Trad Band , don`t play like Rosolino)
I'll second this one. I play with many excellent musicians who do such a great job playing stylistically. Some, well, not so much. It's frustrating to be the only player in a section playing 1940s big band who is using appropriate vibrato, phrasing, articulations, etc.

OTOH, if you hire Rosolino, you should expect him to play like Rosolino and not like Tommy Dorsey.

Yes, for a certain subset of musicians who make versatility part of their career skills, they should be able to play in whatever style they are hired for. I'm one such musician. I specifically studied to be able to play a wide variety of styles, because I wanted to have a recording career and you never know what style you're going to have to play on a moment's notice. But many musicians have their own style niches and play those styles exclusively. Indeed, that's where their skills lie, and you hire them when you want what they do, and you don't hire them for things they do not do. I think it's on the contractor/bandleader to know not to hire those folks for things outside their stylistic abilities.

And the Rosolinos of the world have carved out their own unique musical identity. You hire them for that identity. It would be a pretty stupid contractor/bandleader to hire Rosolino and expect him to play a dixieland or traditional big band style. And what a waste of Rosolino if you get him to do that!

Yes, sidemen should try to play what they are hired to play. But you don't buy a cucumber when you want a tomato, and you don't hire a bebop musician when you want a swing player. Getting the right musician for the style is on the contractor/bandleader.

Wilktone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:53 am
dukesboneman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am 1)You are only as good as your word. If you took the gig and another one comes in, you are already booked.
That Band leader is counting on you to honor your word and be there.
I`ve worked with too many players that`ll dump gig X because gig Y pays $20 bucks more
Bailing on a gig that you committed to, excepting for emergencies or illness, etc., will burn bridges. You might not think that a gig for gas money is worth worrying about, but those band leaders and other musicians will remember you for your unprofessional behavior and you'll loose better paying gigs in the long term.

I put this in the "it depends" column. Lots of bandleaders who use professional musicians on "gas money" gigs do not begrudge players bailing for a better gig and sending a sub. I've actually benefitted from that ethic. Like, speaking of Rosolino, I got to sub for Bill Watrous in Bobby Knight's Great American Trombone Company (a band Rosolino and Carl Fontana played in) when Bill got a better gig. I got into the movie and TV business by being sent to recording sessions as a sub. And frankly, if sending a sub in those situations is acceptable, your top level musician sending a sub to your gas money gig shouldn't be a huge offense.

If you're a bandleader who wants top talent and you're only paying "gas money," you've got to accept players bailing when they get a better gig, so long as they don't leave you hanging and send a decent sub. That's the price of getting that top level of talent for a bottom feeder level of pay.

And frankly, most of those players aren't going to be too upset if you don't use them again.

Wilktone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:53 am
dukesboneman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:30 am 5) Don`t try to play lead from the 3rd book
And don't decide to become the "jazz" chair and solo when it's not in your part. One of the trumpet players I mentioned above had a habit of doing this. When the drum solo on Neal Hefti's "Cute" would come up he would play a solo because he wasn't listening closely enough to realize it was someone else's solo. Vocalist singing and he was resting? No problem he'd jump in and noodle behind the singer without asking first (and overplay while he was at it). If you want to blow a solo, ask first.

Yeah, that's totally unprofessional. I'd never use that player again.

Wilktone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:53 am
jazztonight wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:28 pm If you're a side man on a gig, DO NOT give out your business card to guests or family members. Refer them to the band leader, who should hire you if he/she gets a gig.
And if you're attending someone else's show hoping to network and play as a sub, talk to the bandleader first before approaching the other musicians to hand out your card.

I agree about handing out cards to the audience. But I dunno about this prohibition on networking without bandleader permission. Networking with other section members, giving them a card and saying, "Hey, if you ever need a sub..." should never be a problem. This is how the business works, and I can't imagine why a bandleader would have a problem with that.

Of course, most folks would probably also approach the bandleader and say, "Hey, I'm a trombonist and I love your band. If you ever need a trombone sub..." But to me the bandleader is not the gatekeeper of band members networking.

All these are just opinions offered as devil's advocate. There is a lot of truth out there in many different perspectives and situations. One size does not fit all. Your mileage may vary.

CalgaryTbone · Post by **CalgaryTbone** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:29 am

In our CBA - Stage Black means all black with a jacket. Pit Black means that the jacket is not required. Tux is with black bow tie/white shirt. When you get called for a gig, make sure you know exactly what the required dress is, because all of these terms are not universal.

JS

VJOFan · Post by **VJOFan** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:19 pm

Ask questions about anything you're not sure about: The time I wasn't sure if I was covering an emergency concert absence or a sudden rehearsal absence and showed up in a tuxedo

for a rehearsal.

Don't bluff: The time I said I could transcribe two hours of second trombone part in a Brazilian carnival band from a poorly recorded cassette tape. I couldn't. I was only saved because they eventually hired a few other guys who didn't bluff who recommended a guy who was capable of transcribing ALL the parts.

cb56 · Post by **cb56** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:41 pm

If you're a drummer don't show up without your drums...
YES it actually happened on a gig.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:30 pm

cb56 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:41 pm If you're a drummer don't show up without your drums...
YES it actually happened on a gig.

In many venues around here, you don't bring drums, just cymbals.

Post by **Matt K** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:32 pm

VJOFan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:19 pm Ask questions about anything you're not sure about: The time I wasn't sure if I was covering an emergency concert absence or a sudden rehearsal absence and showed up in a tuxedo for a rehearsal.

Don't bluff: The time I said I could transcribe two hours of second trombone part in a Brazilian carnival band from a poorly recorded cassette tape. I couldn't. I was only saved because they eventually hired a few other guys who didn't bluff who recommended a guy who was capable of transcribing ALL the parts.

I always show up to rehearsals in a tux just in case

ithinknot · Post by **ithinknot** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:44 pm

VJOFan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:19 pm The time I wasn't sure if I was covering an emergency concert absence or a sudden rehearsal absence and showed up in a tuxedo for a rehearsal.

Let them assume it was cocktail hour... "I came as quickly as I could - no time to change"