King 7B mods
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King 7B mods
Just got a decent 7B.
My first King instrument…
This one looks to be a previous school instrument.
Short of scratches throughout, it is in very good shape.
I am having the slide gone over -
For those who have used or still use King basses what are some suggestions for further modification(s)?
I was thinking of switching string linkage to mechanical. The D attachment arm rubs on my neck. (I have a skinny neck). Perhaps having lead pipe pulled too.
Looking forward to hearing what y’all have to say.
Thanks, Sam
My first King instrument…
This one looks to be a previous school instrument.
Short of scratches throughout, it is in very good shape.
I am having the slide gone over -
For those who have used or still use King basses what are some suggestions for further modification(s)?
I was thinking of switching string linkage to mechanical. The D attachment arm rubs on my neck. (I have a skinny neck). Perhaps having lead pipe pulled too.
Looking forward to hearing what y’all have to say.
Thanks, Sam
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Re: King 7B mods
Get to know it first. You might find you like in stock configuration. They are dynamite horns.
- BGuttman
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Re: King 7B mods
I played a King 7B for 40 years and didn't do a thing to it. Worked great as it is.
As far as the string linkage, I had to replace the plastic part 3 times in those 30 years (twice on F, once on Gb). I got some 10 years on a typical string. But if you are dead set on converting to mechanical, good luck. I'm sure a good tech can do it for you.
As far as the string linkage, I had to replace the plastic part 3 times in those 30 years (twice on F, once on Gb). I got some 10 years on a typical string. But if you are dead set on converting to mechanical, good luck. I'm sure a good tech can do it for you.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
- Kingfan
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Re: King 7B mods
Are you talking about 7-B Duo Gravis with dependent valves or a 2107 with independent valves?
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing!
Greg Songer
King 606, DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
Greg Songer
King 606, DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
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Re: King 7B mods
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Re: King 7B mods
The f attachment plastic part is quite loose. That may have to be addressed if I don’t go w mechanical linkage.BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:09 am I played a King 7B for 40 years and didn't do a thing to it. Worked great as it is.
As far as the string linkage, I had to replace the plastic part 3 times in those 30 years (twice on F, once on Gb). I got some 10 years on a typical string. But if you are dead set on converting to mechanical, good luck. I'm sure a good tech can do it for you.
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Re: King 7B mods
Thank you to everyone who has responded!
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Re: King 7B mods
Is it like this?
I haven't done that particular conversion. You would have to braze new attachment points to the stop arms, and it looks like the links would have to be very short, and you probably would have to modify the levers. Could be difficult. Maybe someone here has done it?
I haven't done that particular conversion. You would have to braze new attachment points to the stop arms, and it looks like the links would have to be very short, and you probably would have to modify the levers. Could be difficult. Maybe someone here has done it?
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Brad Close Brass Instruments - brassmedic.com
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Re: King 7B mods
I'm a fan of string linkages - they've always worked well for me. Don't give up too easily. May need a simple (inexpensive) tune-up by a tech.
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Re: King 7B mods
Yes…but mine isn’t as pretty (yet).brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:02 pm Is it like this?
king.jpg
I haven't done that particular conversion. You would have to braze new attachment points to the stop arms, and it looks like the links would have to be very short, and you probably would have to modify the levers. Could be difficult. Maybe someone here has done it?
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Re: King 7B mods
Nice, clear photo, Bassboneman69!
Shows a couple significant points:
1) The "F" rotor shows what you can get a tech to make for you if you get tired of the plastic breaking every decade or so;
2) the stop arms show one of the biggest advantages of the strings.
That big advantage is that the effective action lever of the string is from the outside of the stop arm to the center. If one brazes on an anchor for something like a miniball, the effective lever length will be longer. That translates into more travel at the valve end of the lever. That, in turn, means that the tight clearance between that second lever and the first valve will become more critical. OTOH, that will mean LESS travel under the finger...
Speaking of fingers, a second advantage of the string is that you CAN tune the exact position of the string clamp screw to some degree to adjust finger position. Again, you are limited by bumping into the first valve or the end of the string. But there is QUITE a bit of freedom there!
I think George McCracken started the work on this, Chuck Ward sure did a nice job getting it into production!!
Dave
Shows a couple significant points:
1) The "F" rotor shows what you can get a tech to make for you if you get tired of the plastic breaking every decade or so;
2) the stop arms show one of the biggest advantages of the strings.
That big advantage is that the effective action lever of the string is from the outside of the stop arm to the center. If one brazes on an anchor for something like a miniball, the effective lever length will be longer. That translates into more travel at the valve end of the lever. That, in turn, means that the tight clearance between that second lever and the first valve will become more critical. OTOH, that will mean LESS travel under the finger...
Speaking of fingers, a second advantage of the string is that you CAN tune the exact position of the string clamp screw to some degree to adjust finger position. Again, you are limited by bumping into the first valve or the end of the string. But there is QUITE a bit of freedom there!
I think George McCracken started the work on this, Chuck Ward sure did a nice job getting it into production!!
Dave
brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:02 pm Is it like this?
king.jpg
I haven't done that particular conversion. You would have to braze new attachment points to the stop arms, and it looks like the links would have to be very short, and you probably would have to modify the levers. Could be difficult. Maybe someone here has done it?
- greenbean
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- Location: San Francisco
Re: King 7B mods
I owned a 7B and would gladly buy it back if I could. It did not need a single mod.
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
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Re: King 7B mods
If the F attachment knuckle is damaged and not repairable what are thoughts on replacing w Instrument Innovations rotor(s)?
- Burgerbob
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Re: King 7B mods
If you used the tenor ones, might be a good choicebassboneman69 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:48 am If the F attachment knuckle is damaged and not repairable what are thoughts on replacing w Instrument Innovations rotor(s)?
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
- greenbean
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Re: King 7B mods
Not bass rotors?Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:48 amIf you used the tenor ones, might be a good choicebassboneman69 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:48 am If the F attachment knuckle is damaged and not repairable what are thoughts on replacing w Instrument Innovations rotor(s)?
- elmsandr
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Re: King 7B mods
Depending on the vintage, King maintained constant bore through the attachments. I.e. .562 for basses, not the .593 common in others. Part of what makes a king play like a king.
Cheers,
Andy
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Re: King 7B mods
Slightly off topic but still related to the 7B. Does anybody know if the 7B copies out there have .562 valves or .593?
- psybersonic
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Re: King 7B mods
I've just bought a Coppergate for the princely sum of £100. The case was worth that amount. As far as i can make out the F internal diameter is about .59 so not a faithful copy of a 7b and the f trigger is below the bell stay like an 88h . Blows OK and the mid upper range is much more resonant than the Yamaha 613h I was using.
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Re: King 7B mods
I believe that someone, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away, made metal copies of the lever arm that holds the string. On my old 4B, I went through 3 plastic levers over about 10 years.
Kenneth Biggs
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
- psybersonic
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Re: King 7B mods
Oops ! a case of measure twice post once I measured the F attachment bore where the tuning slide fitted rather than the bore of the tuning slide itself. It is 14.3 mm or .562 inches . The slide however looks to be .547 . Mouthpiece insertion marks are the same as my 88h. Basically a large bore tenor with a Gb valve and a big bell .
- Burgerbob
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Re: King 7B mods
These Chinese horns are all the same- the slides are .562, they are basses.psybersonic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:15 pm Oops ! a case of measure twice post once I measured the F attachment bore where the tuning slide fitted rather than the bore of the tuning slide itself. It is 14.3 mm or .562 inches . The slide however looks to be .547 . Mouthpiece insertion marks are the same as my 88h. Basically a large bore tenor with a Gb valve and a big bell .
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
- psybersonic
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Re: King 7B mods
I've measured the inner slide with a caliper gauge it's 13.9mm inside diameter and 14.3mm external. I got it because a friend bought it online for her 9 year old as it was advertised as a Bb/f (the girl can't reach 7th position). No chance to return, caveat emptor. Gear4Music the original vendor advertise the spec as 14.3mm ID. They also do a large bore tenor so maybe the slides got mixed up somewhere along the line , however the bell and slide mate well.Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:43 pmThese Chinese horns are all the same- the slides are .562, they are basses.psybersonic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:15 pm Oops ! a case of measure twice post once I measured the F attachment bore where the tuning slide fitted rather than the bore of the tuning slide itself. It is 14.3 mm or .562 inches . The slide however looks to be .547 . Mouthpiece insertion marks are the same as my 88h. Basically a large bore tenor with a Gb valve and a big bell .
The slide from a Yamaha 613h fits as well . We are only talking about 15 thousandths of an inch difference.
Will try out the Yamaha slide and see how it plays .
- heldenbone
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Re: King 7B mods
This is a 4B, not a 6B, but this issues are similar. I used a brass washer with 2 holes drilled to reverse the pull direction. I have some smaller ball joints that will go _under_ the washer to make it nicer and improve the angle of pull vs. the rotor bearing.brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:02 pm I haven't done that particular conversion. You would have to braze new attachment points to the stop arms, and it looks like the links would have to be very short, and you probably would have to modify the levers. Could be difficult. Maybe someone here has done it?
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Richard
Richard
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Re: King 7B mods
I have the Jinbao clone with a Sauer Brace, Brass Ark MV50 leadpipe in seamed nickel silver, and Giddings Mark I mouthpiece. The mods are worth more than the horn.