Hey all. Just a few question you'all may be able to help with.
1) i have a 12c and a 6.5al mp, both in metal and plastic. (4 in all)
I can't really tell any difference between them. Is it that big a deal at my stage
(4 months playing) or should i forget about it for now ?
2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
It seems to work. Am i on the right track ?
3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?
Thanks for any advice.
Laurie
3 newbie questions
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ttf_anonymous
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ttf_vegasbound
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1. Pick one I would suggest the 6 1/2. Stick to it and practice a lot
2. If you don't have a teacher get one!
3 if you don't have a teacher get one
And imho you should find an ensemble to play with....music should be fun and sociable!!
2. If you don't have a teacher get one!
3 if you don't have a teacher get one
And imho you should find an ensemble to play with....music should be fun and sociable!!
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ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Agree with the previous answers. A (good) teacher will go a long way helping you.
2) using vowel shapes to control airspeed in relation to range (O or low open A for low range, gradually raising/arching the tongue towards "eeee" in the high range) is a school of playing many adhere to. Whether it's "the right track" is somewhat open to debate, as some people don't adhere to that.
3) time / practice is a solution, at least partially, to lots of things. It's not necessarily good to over-analyse what's happening in your playing, especially while you're playing. But generally, training your ear, singing, and having the habit of singing your music in your head as you're playing it (or actually, slightly before), and thus mentally hearing the note before you play it will always help securing the beginning of notes, as will having the slide at the right place to match the pitch. Other common reasons for cracking notes are having your tongue in the way disrupting the air flow, as well as bad coordination between your air, tongue and buzz at the moment of the attack.
2) using vowel shapes to control airspeed in relation to range (O or low open A for low range, gradually raising/arching the tongue towards "eeee" in the high range) is a school of playing many adhere to. Whether it's "the right track" is somewhat open to debate, as some people don't adhere to that.
3) time / practice is a solution, at least partially, to lots of things. It's not necessarily good to over-analyse what's happening in your playing, especially while you're playing. But generally, training your ear, singing, and having the habit of singing your music in your head as you're playing it (or actually, slightly before), and thus mentally hearing the note before you play it will always help securing the beginning of notes, as will having the slide at the right place to match the pitch. Other common reasons for cracking notes are having your tongue in the way disrupting the air flow, as well as bad coordination between your air, tongue and buzz at the moment of the attack.
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ttf_robcat2075
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Quote from: lauriet on Dec 26, 2017, 04:06AM
2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
"tah", not "tar"
If you are not a native English speaker listen to it here (press the speaker button)
You want the open air passage that the "ah" vowel creates.
Use "tah" as the normal vowel. "Tee" is useful for high notes but if you are just starting out you probably aren't up to those high notes that really need it yet.
Quote3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?
Possible cause... your lips were not ready for the note you were about to play.
2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
"tah", not "tar"
If you are not a native English speaker listen to it here (press the speaker button)
You want the open air passage that the "ah" vowel creates.
Use "tah" as the normal vowel. "Tee" is useful for high notes but if you are just starting out you probably aren't up to those high notes that really need it yet.
Quote3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?
Possible cause... your lips were not ready for the note you were about to play.
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ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Wouldn't many native English speakers pronounce "Tar" the same way as "tah", sort of like how Bostonians "pahk tha cahh"? But in a more UK style?
I bet that was what she was going for.
I bet that was what she was going for.
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ttf_Radar
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Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Dec 26, 2017, 08:50AMWouldn't many native English speakers pronounce "Tar" the same way as "tah", sort of like how Bostonians "pahk tha cahh"? But in a more UK style?
I bet that was what she was going for.
The vowel sound would be the same but I would think trying to put an R consonant on it would close and restrict the throat. Pronouncing both tah and tar out loud and you can feel the difference.
I bet that was what she was going for.
The vowel sound would be the same but I would think trying to put an R consonant on it would close and restrict the throat. Pronouncing both tah and tar out loud and you can feel the difference.
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ttf_harrison.t.reed
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As an American, the UK pronunciation of Tar sounds like Tah to me. No ending consonant to my ears. I bet there's something going on way back in there though.
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ttf_ddickerson
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The 'R' sound is a dipthong, so I would think that you wouldn't incorporate that into long tones.
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ttf_BGuttman
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I'd also like to point out that the Toe-Tah-Tee is actually part of a continuum. You won't find that, for example, C is Toe and D above it is Tah. Doesn't work that way.
Note that some prefer D syllables: Doe-Dah-Dee. Try both and see what works better for you.
Cracking the start of a note (or hissing) is a problem of the synchronization of the air, lip tension, and tongue. There's a reason a lot of the beginning exercises are slow. It's a chance to get things synchronized before you start speeding up.
Note that some prefer D syllables: Doe-Dah-Dee. Try both and see what works better for you.
Cracking the start of a note (or hissing) is a problem of the synchronization of the air, lip tension, and tongue. There's a reason a lot of the beginning exercises are slow. It's a chance to get things synchronized before you start speeding up.
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ttf_robcat2075
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I did consider the possibility that some strange regional aberration of pronunciation (the British) might be involved.
That is why I included a link that OP can visit to hear an audible demonstration and remove any doubt about what I, unaccented Middle-West American, regard "tah" to sound like.
"tar" should be discarded immediately, even if it is somehow coming out like "tah."
That is why I included a link that OP can visit to hear an audible demonstration and remove any doubt about what I, unaccented Middle-West American, regard "tah" to sound like.
"tar" should be discarded immediately, even if it is somehow coming out like "tah."
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ttf_lauriet
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In Australia tar and tah sound the same.
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ttf_robcat2075
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Is someone there actually teaching "tar"?
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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Apparently you've never been to England or Australia.
I was a little confused at first when I went to the Great Barrier Reef and stayed in Cairns, pronounced something like "Cans."
I can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.
I was a little confused at first when I went to the Great Barrier Reef and stayed in Cairns, pronounced something like "Cans."
I can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.
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ttf_robcat2075
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Quote from: Doug Elliott on Dec 26, 2017, 10:00PMI can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.
"do re mi fa sol la ti do" aren't words either but aside from the von Trapp children I don't think anyone has been baffled by their use.
"do re mi fa sol la ti do" aren't words either but aside from the von Trapp children I don't think anyone has been baffled by their use.
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ttf_lauriet
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Here in oz we would pronounce it:
doe, ray, me, far, so, lar, tea, doe
doe, ray, me, far, so, lar, tea, doe
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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Actually they ARE words... They're the Italian names of the notes.
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ttf_bigbassbone1
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Quote from: robcat2075 on Dec 26, 2017, 06:38PMIs someone there actually teaching "tar"?
Ive never thought about it consciously but yeah.... I would say "Tah" and "Tar" exactly the same way if I was reading out loud.... im actually struggling to imagine how you would say them differently. Even when I do my american accent
Ill have to ask my American friends to say it for me when im back in L.A. in a month.
Ive never thought about it consciously but yeah.... I would say "Tah" and "Tar" exactly the same way if I was reading out loud.... im actually struggling to imagine how you would say them differently. Even when I do my american accent
Ill have to ask my American friends to say it for me when im back in L.A. in a month.-
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Quote from: Doug Elliott on Dec 27, 2017, 01:06AMActually they ARE words... They're the Italian names of the notes.
And Spanish and French and Portuguese and Romanian etc. And of course they're actually Latin first.
But they're not used because they are words they became words because they were used.
And Spanish and French and Portuguese and Romanian etc. And of course they're actually Latin first.
But they're not used because they are words they became words because they were used.
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ttf_timothy42b
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Every choir director I've ever had has railed against the "American R." They want it left out. We'll drive too fah not too far.
When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine.
"Oh" is a diphthong too.
When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine.
"Oh" is a diphthong too.
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ttf_MikeBMiller
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I have been playing 45 years and still crack notes. Don't lose sleep over it.
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ttf_ddickerson
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Quote from: timothy42b on Dec 27, 2017, 06:30AMEvery choir director I've ever had has railed against the "American R." They want it left out. We'll drive too fah not too far.
When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine.
"Oh" is a diphthong too.
You mean "oh" contains a diphthong.
When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine.
"Oh" is a diphthong too.
You mean "oh" contains a diphthong.
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ttf_timothy42b
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Quote from: ddickerson on Dec 27, 2017, 07:27AMYou mean "oh" contains a diphthong.
On which you could stub your "toe."
There are an infinite number of shadings between vowels, as Anna Marie Haefele so ably demonstrates.
On which you could stub your "toe."
There are an infinite number of shadings between vowels, as Anna Marie Haefele so ably demonstrates.
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ttf_lauriet
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So i guess that its a yes for using toe/tar/tee (given the aussie accent).
What about the mp. I get the impression that it is a suttle difference at best, or am i too inexperienced to hear it ?.
And cracking notes ???
What about the mp. I get the impression that it is a suttle difference at best, or am i too inexperienced to hear it ?.
And cracking notes ???
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ttf_BGuttman
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Quote from: lauriet on Dec 27, 2017, 02:57PMSo i guess that its a yes for using toe/tar/tee (given the aussie accent).
What about the mp. I get the impression that it is a suttle difference at best, or am i too inexperienced to hear it ?.
And cracking notes ???
At some point you will discover there is a difference in the response of the two mouthpieces. If you can't tell the difference, don't sweat it. Keep working on your technique and sonority.
What about the mp. I get the impression that it is a suttle difference at best, or am i too inexperienced to hear it ?.
And cracking notes ???
At some point you will discover there is a difference in the response of the two mouthpieces. If you can't tell the difference, don't sweat it. Keep working on your technique and sonority.
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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Depending on the brand of the mouthpieces you have, it's possible the only difference is the number stamped on them.
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ttf_savio
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Quote from: lauriet on Dec 26, 2017, 04:06AMHey all. Just a few question you'all may be able to help with.
1) i have a 12c and a 6.5al mp, both in metal and plastic. (4 in all)
I can't really tell any difference between them. Is it that big a deal at my stage
(4 months playing) or should i forget about it for now ?
2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
It seems to work. Am i on the right track ?
3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?
Thanks for any advice.
Laurie
1. At your stage I would advice to pick one and play it for some time to make a ground for further development.
2. I think you are on the right track!
3. The start of note is essential in how to make music and styles in music. Its about articulation. There is so many methods. In and out breath should be in one movement. Use a metronome when practice start of notes. Try start notes without tongue and then add it. Play melodies where you only think about music and making a good sound. Sometimes when when you only think about one problem like start of a note, everything will go wrong. Think music even on long notes.
It will come
Leif
1) i have a 12c and a 6.5al mp, both in metal and plastic. (4 in all)
I can't really tell any difference between them. Is it that big a deal at my stage
(4 months playing) or should i forget about it for now ?
2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
It seems to work. Am i on the right track ?
3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?
Thanks for any advice.
Laurie
1. At your stage I would advice to pick one and play it for some time to make a ground for further development.
2. I think you are on the right track!
3. The start of note is essential in how to make music and styles in music. Its about articulation. There is so many methods. In and out breath should be in one movement. Use a metronome when practice start of notes. Try start notes without tongue and then add it. Play melodies where you only think about music and making a good sound. Sometimes when when you only think about one problem like start of a note, everything will go wrong. Think music even on long notes.
It will come
Leif
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ttf_Bjroosevelt
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3 newbie questions
Agree that joining an ensemble is a great idea.
Though many disagree with me, I dont see getting a teacher to be of primal importance. I think practicing is. Great thing about a teacher is that they shorten the learning curve. Problem with a teacher is that they can snuff out enjoyment of the instrument.
When it comes to music, I do what I enjoy....as I am not a student and have a full work life not related to music. If music were my profession, I would probably have a teacher. If I were a music student with aspirations, I would likely have a teacher.
Though many disagree with me, I dont see getting a teacher to be of primal importance. I think practicing is. Great thing about a teacher is that they shorten the learning curve. Problem with a teacher is that they can snuff out enjoyment of the instrument.
When it comes to music, I do what I enjoy....as I am not a student and have a full work life not related to music. If music were my profession, I would probably have a teacher. If I were a music student with aspirations, I would likely have a teacher.
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ttf_Bjroosevelt
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3 newbie questions
Agree that joining an ensemble is a great idea.
Though many disagree with me, I dont see getting a teacher to be of primal importance. I think practicing is. Great thing about a teacher is that they shorten the learning curve. Problem with a teacher is that they can snuff out enjoyment of the instrument.
When it comes to music, I do what I enjoy....as I am not a student and have a full work life not related to music. If music were my profession, I would probably have a teacher. If I were a music student with aspirations, I would likely have a teacher.
Though many disagree with me, I dont see getting a teacher to be of primal importance. I think practicing is. Great thing about a teacher is that they shorten the learning curve. Problem with a teacher is that they can snuff out enjoyment of the instrument.
When it comes to music, I do what I enjoy....as I am not a student and have a full work life not related to music. If music were my profession, I would probably have a teacher. If I were a music student with aspirations, I would likely have a teacher.