Silver rimmed, gold cupped mouthpiece

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:27 pm

Im definitely aware of a silver mouthpiece with an gold plated rim, but what about the opposite? Ive always liked the sound of a could mouthpiece, but I always find the metal to be too slippery for me, so I always revert back to silver mouthpieces. Does anyone know of or if its even possible to have a gold plated mouthpiece with a silver rim.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:31 pm

Only if it's a screw rim. If you like the appearance of the gold plated mouthpiece but want the silver rim you'll need to haave the rim separate.

In theory you could silver plate over a gold rim but I don't know anybody who does it.

ttf_Dbryant2790 · Post by **ttf_Dbryant2790** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:33 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 06, 2017, 07:31PMOnly if it's a screw rim. If you like the appearance of the gold plated mouthpiece but want the silver rim you'll need to haave the rim separate.

In theory you could silver plate over a gold rim but I don't know anybody who does it.

I know mouthpiece express can re-plate mouthpieces, do you think it would it be possible to take a silver mouthpiece and get everything but the rim re-plated in gold?

ttf_heinz gries · Post by **ttf_heinz gries** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:43 am

i have a mouthpiece, rim and inner cup silver plated, the rest ist gold plated. Was no problem.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:53 am

Well besides looking cool what's the benefit of a silver rim and a gold cup. The opposite makes sense. Also I doubt there's any sound difference either way.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:25 am

Maybe part of the reason you like the sound on gold is the slipperiness. Making a change to anything you have to bear in mind that when you change X, very rarely does only one other thing change. Especially the rim, the part that interfaces with the part that has the most variability, your lip

Another possibility is that when you gold plate something, the person doing the work has to buff and polish to plate and you get a perfectly clean mouthpiece as a result. If you tried two mouthpieces without a thorough cleaning, then you've really compared one mouthpiece with gold and X amount of crud (up to multiple throat size differences in some people's mouthpieces

) vs a mouthpiece in silver with Y amount of crud. Again

That also assumes that the two mouthpieces are identical which is not necessarily the best assumption. However, what you are asking is possible but you'll be needing to be ready to pay out. It may well be cheaper to buy a new mouthpiece with the specifications you are asking than to have it replated though that depends on the thickness of the gold and the quality of the plating/preparation.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:36 am

Maybe part of the reason you like the sound on gold is the slipperiness.

Matt K please expand on this.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:54 am

I'm going purely off of the observations of the OP, who nominally prefers the sound they have on a mouthpiece that is slippery. So given just these two parameters we are left with:

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:38 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 07, 2017, 06:54AMI'm going purely off of the observations of the OP, who nominally prefers the sound they have on a mouthpiece that is slippery. So given just these two parameters we are left with:

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:13 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 07, 2017, 06:54AMAt the end of the day, the placebo effect is a non trivial influence too and so if one believes X about their piece and it makes them play better or enjoy music more as a result, then in my estimation the price was well worth it even though the reason had nothing to do with the actual change made.

Gotta agree here. I feel in my sound and confidence as a player that having switched out some parts on my horn to make a hybrid gold/silver-look has made me a better player. Not sure what others are hearing, but to me the sound and intonation are just improved, AND I've got boosted morale for playing trombone in general.

go figure

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:28 am

Quote from: davdud101 on Nov 07, 2017, 09:13AMGotta agree here. I feel in my sound and confidence as a player that having switched out some parts on my horn to make a hybrid gold/silver-look has made me a better player. Not sure what others are hearing, but to me the sound and intonation are just improved, AND I've got boosted morale for playing trombone in general.

go figure

A horn i will agree. We're talking about mouthpieces.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:02 am

Bear in mind I recently did a similar experiment with Titanium and Steel mouthpieces while controlling for rim size and material with a lexan rim. I also thoroughly cleaned the pieces such that if the pieces were different, it was because they were actually different, not because there was a different sized layer of crud on the backbore. Keep in mind that the difference between a .281 and a .261 throat is the difference between a 6.5A and 6.5AL in large shank; and is equivalent of .5mm. Who here isn't guilty of playing a mouthpiece that they haven't cleaned this week? You probably have a smaller throat size than the original piece.

At any rate, I did notice a difference between the two. So somewhere between having a whole mouthpiece made out of a material and having a thin layer of plating it starts to be perceivable to me. (I also admittedly have not tried a gold plated interior with a screw rim, fwiw). Somewhere in between thin layer of material X and a full mouthpiece made out of material X I suspect most would start to notice a difference.

What is that ratio? I dunno. I don't know if its possible to know - the placebo effect is very real!

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:40 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 07, 2017, 11:02AMBear in mind I recently did a similar experiment with Titanium and Steel mouthpieces while controlling for rim size and material with a lexan rim. I also thoroughly cleaned the pieces such that if the pieces were different, it was because they were actually different, not because there was a different sized layer of crud on the backbore. Keep in mind that the difference between a .281 and a .261 throat is the difference between a 6.5A and 6.5AL in large shank; and is equivalent of .5mm. Who here isn't guilty of playing a mouthpiece that they haven't cleaned this week? You probably have a smaller throat size than the original piece.

At any rate, I did notice a difference between the two. So somewhere between having a whole mouthpiece made out of a material and having a thin layer of plating it starts to be perceivable to me. (I also admittedly have not tried a gold plated interior with a screw rim, fwiw). Somewhere in between thin layer of material X and a full mouthpiece made out of material X I suspect most would start to notice a difference.

What is that ratio? I dunno. I don't know if its possible to know - the placebo effect is very real!

OMG. Let me clarify what I mean as you are all over the place. You take one mouthpiece and you get the rim silver plated and the cup gold plated. After you've played it for awhile you take the same mouthpiece and you gold plate the rim and silver plate the cup. Yes it will feel different. Make recordings with each piece using exactly the same horn and tell me there's a noticeable difference in sound. You might be able to get a little more lip in the piece with the gold plated rim but not enough the drastically change the sound. When comparing you have to use the same one or at least identical pieces from the same manufacturer. Using 2 different pieces is a total waste of time.

ttf_Chris Fidler · Post by **ttf_Chris Fidler** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:45 am

I had a silver plated rim gold bodied Bach 11C one time which I had done.
I prefer the feel of silver on the chops....... I was young and liked the hip-ness of the gold look

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:51 am

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Nov 07, 2017, 11:45AMI had a silver plated rim gold bodied Bach 11C one time which I had done.
I prefer the feel of silver on the chops....... I was young and liked the hip-ness of the gold look

Yeh the feel difference is real! I have gold for my bass trombone piece but silver for both of my tenor pieces.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 am

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Nov 07, 2017, 11:51AMYeh the feel difference is real! I have gold for my bass trombone piece but silver for both of my tenor pieces.

If something feels different, is it outside the realm of possibility that you would play differently because of that feel?

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:06 pm

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Nov 07, 2017, 10:28AMA horn i will agree. We're talking about mouthpieces.

Oh yeah I'm not discounting mouthpieces by any stretch... just meant to tack on that ANY change that makes the player perceive that something has improved, even if it makes NO audible difference, can be good for the player in a myriad of ways.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:15 pm

Quote from: Dan Hine on Nov 07, 2017, 11:58AMIf something feels different, is it outside the realm of possibility that you would play differently because of that feel?

Dan all I share is my experience. My current bass piece, a MT Vernon 1 and 1/2G, was silver plated when I first received it. I played it for a bit and decided to have it gold plated, the entire piece not just the rim. It felt better to me but there was zero difference in the sound I produced.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:42 pm

I only have experience with two mouthpieces that were once silver then sent to be gold plated. I would argue that there was a difference after having the rims ( screw rims ) plated. But the difference only being how much the slipperiness let me move around. Was that very much or even noticeable in front of the bell? All I know is the last rim I had plated was a DE and the mouthpieces Ive acquired since havent been sent to anyone for playing. Still rocking those silver bass rims.

To the OP: the placebo effect can work wonders especially when its with something so fiddly and subtle like mouthpiece plating. If you have your mouthpiece plated and you find a difference then thats good. If you dont find any difference then you still have a cool looking mouthpiece and liking your gear is a good feeling and part of the whole experience.

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:35 pm

On Euphonium I use a Schilke Silver plated 46D rim on a gold plated 51 underpart.
A couple years ago I sold to a fellow forum member a silver 46D rim with a Gold plated 51B underpart
The 46D/51 combo works for me

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:35 pm

On Euphonium I use a Schilke Silver plated 46D rim on a gold plated 51 underpart.
A couple years ago I sold to a fellow forum member a silver 46D rim with a Gold plated 51B underpart
The 46D/51 combo works for me