Getting sheet music sequenced into Sibelius

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:26 pm

Anyone know a better way to turn sheet music into a Sibelius file besides using Photoscore? Photoscore makes so many mistakes that it takes nearly as long.

I have heard of guys that do this for a fee, but it's usually 20 dollars per page.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:52 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Yesterday at 07:26 PMAnyone know a better way to turn sheet music into a Sibelius file besides using Photoscore? Photoscore makes so many mistakes that it takes nearly as long.

I have heard of guys that do this for a fee, but it's usually 20 dollars per page.

The free version of Photoscore is pretty useless but I've heard that the real one you pay for actually works. I don't have it.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:48 am

$20/page

holy cow, how many staves? I have sib 7.5 and would do it for way less than that unless there's like 60 lines per page lol

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:11 am

I'm a recent convert to Neuratron's NotateMe on an iPad Pro using an Apple Pencil. I've had NotateMe installed for years, but drawing notes on staves with a finger didn't work worth a damn. Using an Apple Pencil, however, the accuracy is really quite impressive -- I'd guess 95% or better. Best data entry facility in a music notation app that I've found yet; notes you draw in the input area are interpreted immediately in the display area. Rendered pages aren't the greatest, so I export projects to MusicXML when I'm finished with data entry and prettify things in MuseScore. Check it out in this short video.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:13 am

I got out of freelance web artwork because nowadays with sites like elance you're competing with some guy in Vietnam who is offering to do the same Flash work for 1/20th of a US rate.

I mention that because... have you looked far enough to rule out the possibility that some guy in NotHereistan will enter your music for way less than $20/page?

They have PCs in China, with pirate versions of Sibelius on them. They have people who study classical music. Maybe someone is doing it.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:24 am

Never thought of that. I'd rather do it myself, or at least get a program that does it better than whatever photoscore version I have now can.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:53 am

I use photo score pro and if the pdf file is good, the result is actually very good.

Leif

ttf_trombonemetal · Post by **ttf_trombonemetal** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:00 am

I recently generated score for three pieces (2 cello quartets and a flute trio) using photoscore lite. The program kind of sucks but what made the job go much much faster was buying an 11 button gaming mouse and mapping the buttons for Sibelius. I was able to do 95% of what I needed to do without endlessly moving from mouse to computer keyboard to number pad.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:44 am

Quote from: trombonemetal on Today at 11:00 AMI recently generated score for three pieces (2 cello quartets and a flute trio) using photoscore lite. The program kind of sucks but what made the job go much much faster was buying an 11 button gaming mouse and mapping the buttons for Sibelius. I was able to do 95% of what I needed to do without endlessly moving from mouse to computer keyboard to number pad.

Which mouse are you using? Have a Logitec G500 but for note entry I typically use the keyboard. Would you be willing to post an image of your mapping? Would be interested in trying it out your say since I've used gaming mouses for my database administration job (where there were a lot of repetitive actions) very successfully.

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Photoscore is the best on the market. It works very, very well with computer generated PDFs, fairly well with excellent quality scans of clean printed editions with enough spacing. It's pretty useless with clustered scores, unclean scans and manuscripts since you can do it faster by manually inputting into Sibelius if you're any good.

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:07 pm

I encourage you to learn proper engraving skills yourself or be willing to pay for the job if not. Music engraving is a profession, and just the same that trombonists accepting underpaid gigs are bad for the performing market, amateurs willing to accept engraving gigs for a few bucks are bad for the engraving/arranging market.

Just because anybody can own Sibelius and do a basic engraving with the default settings doesn't mean that a proper job shouldn't be worth paying a decent and fair price for it. It also doesn't mean we should settle for sloppy and unprofessional engraving.

Market price is typically 40$/hour minimum. If it's an easy job, it doesn't cost THAT much in the end, for a good, professional result.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 pm

Don't you talk down on me from your ivory tower!

I probably should learn the keyboard shortcuts on Sibelius one of these days. I don't have time though. I just want accurate files, and I want them faster than I've been making them so far. What I'm doing with them is top secret.

I'd be willing to pay, but that amount is too much.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:39 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jul 22, 2017, 03:14PMI probably should learn the keyboard shortcuts on Sibelius one of these days. I don't have time though.

OK, I see the problem.

Every time you go for something that has a keyboard shortcut, look it up instead and do the shortcut. Eventually you get tired of looking up the shortcuts and you remember them.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:45 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jul 22, 2017, 03:39PMOK, I see the problem.

Every time you go for something that has a keyboard shortcut, look it up instead and do the shortcut. Eventually you get tired of looking up the shortcuts and you remember them.

Definitely. Photoscore to this point has been much faster than I am. Seems like there isn't anything much faster than it, though. For what it's worth, for reference, I just did the first movement of the Hasley Stevens Sonata for trumpet, about 10 pages of piano music in mixed meter, using Photoscore today. It took me two hours, and I still have to do another check through to make sure the voices and accidentals don't contain errors. 200+ measures. Is that slower than it should be?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:06 pm

There's the rub about doing it by scan vs. doing it by hand. You can double check yourself as you're entering in notes and you're far less likely to miss something than the scanners are - at least as of now. I haven't used those applications in a few years so maybe they've gotten a lot better since then but I always found I was at least 2x as fast as if I had to go through and double check the scanned stuff.

One other problem with your approach may be a lack of a num pad use. If I was on a laptop and had to use the CTRL + ??? to do input I'd be, at most, 1/3 the speed I currently input stuff in. The num pad in Sibelius is essential as far as I am aware, unless you have an MMO/Gaming mouse as mentioned earlier. You can pick one up for $10 that plugs into USB if you don't have one and you'll find yourself going much faster and it doesn't take nearly as long to get used to if for no other reason than every 'button' (flats, sharps, naturals, quarters, eighths, etc.) is in the same 'location' as the num pad. (E.g. the grid matches the num pad). So no looking anything up!

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:23 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jul 22, 2017, 03:14PMDon't you talk down on me from your ivory tower!

I probably should learn the keyboard shortcuts on Sibelius one of these days. I don't have time though. I just want accurate files, and I want them faster than I've been making them so far. What I'm doing with them is top secret.

I'd be willing to pay, but that amount is too much.

No ivory tower. It's perfectly fine to do it yourself, it's the best way to get good at it! I didn't hire people because I didn't have money to do so and would rather do an unprofessional job myself and learn than pay below market value for a sub-par job, and now I'm good enough to charge money to others to do it.

But about paying the fair price : how can we be asking that clients (and society) recognize the value of our work as musicians if we ourselves don't fully value other musicians' or music artisans' work...

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:23 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jul 22, 2017, 03:14PMDon't you talk down on me from your ivory tower!

I probably should learn the keyboard shortcuts on Sibelius one of these days. I don't have time though. I just want accurate files, and I want them faster than I've been making them so far. What I'm doing with them is top secret.

I'd be willing to pay, but that amount is too much.

No ivory tower. It's perfectly fine to do it yourself, it's the best way to get good at it! I didn't hire people because I didn't have money to do so and would rather do an unprofessional job myself and learn than pay below market value for a sub-par job, and now I'm good enough to charge money to others to do it.

But about paying the fair price : how can we be asking that clients (and society) recognize the value of our work as musicians if we ourselves don't fully value other musicians' or music artisans' work...