Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:53 am

I just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday). So far so good.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:05 am

Quote from: Dan Hine on Oct 02, 2017, 05:53AMI just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday). So far so good.

Chris Stearn

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:01 am

Quote from: Dan Hine on Oct 02, 2017, 05:53AMI just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday). So far so good.

If I had checked TTF when I normally do after rehearsals, I'm pretty sure that would have been mine.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:30 am

Quote from: tbathras on Oct 02, 2017, 08:01AMIf I had checked TTF when I normally do after rehearsals, I'm pretty sure that would have been mine.

Shop early. Shop often.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:39 am

Quote from: Dan Hine on Oct 02, 2017, 05:53AMI just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday). So far so good.

SO YOU bought it.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:14 pm

I love this thread. I've spent the last week scanning through the entire thing.
I am a bass trombonist that, like many has moved around so many different mouthpieces since I started playing.
I've freelanced on bigger pieces mainly over the last 3 years. My go-to mouth piece was the Schilke 60
and before that I was using G&W Bob Sanders (very similar to 60) and more recently the G&W Nor Easter.
I had played on the 60 exclusively for the last year and a half. At Uni I spent most of my time on 59
sized pieces and the Laskey 85MD towards the end.

I am currently working towards some orchestral auditions and with lots of free time on my hands decided to try
some different pieces. I felt that my playing was reasonable on the 60, but incredibly taxing for loud upper register
playing. I also didn't like the articulation I was getting on the 60 - never clean enough.
The most obvious problem I had with it was the tendency for it go flat in the harmonics above top of the stave Bb. I know
I had been making micro adjustments because of this for years.

I've felt that ever since I was at uni, there was a kind of 'passive bullying' going on from professionals and
semi professional students to always push big gear. I had a few teachers that would encourage for me to play on the
biggest mouthpiece and to not bother with anything like the 1.5g size. I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low. I feel like this is some of the worst advice
i'd received - and it came from a highly respected professional who held a principal chair.

There were some colleagues of mine however who had heard me play on smaller gear. Tenor trombone friends who had heard me
play on a 1.5g and schilke 59 (coming from something bigger than that) and remarked how much better I sounded on the smaller stuff.
I wish I could go back, take their advice and never stray.

So anyway, as I was saying with my abundance of free time I pulled out my draw full of mouthpieces. I set up my Zoom H6 microphone and played to
it over a couple of days and listened and compared. I then went into another room in the house which I have acoustically treated and played some
more. I was really surprised at what I heard. The most interesting and desirable sounding playing came from the most uncomfortable piece that I
had. A DAMN BACH 2G!

The first time I played on it, I actually said whilst recording 'oh my god I can't play that f****n thing' - I then listened back and the sound had
much more character, interest and core to it than anything else I tried (about 10 mouthpieces)

Now it has a few problems. It plays relatively sharp. On my Shires I have to pull the tuning slide a fair way out to get a Bb @ 441 and it tends to want to
sit on the high side. I'm guessing that's also partially me getting used to the thing (I am cold turkey from 1.5 years on a Schilke 60)
The other problem is the trigger register and below. From about trigger D and below the 2g is hard work and can sound a bit gnarly.
I don't mind that though. I'm happy to do the work because that mid and lower mid register just sounds so good to me.
High range better but a bit weird, I have a few extra notes on top but it's going to take a bit to get used to.

(I remember reading this thread YEARS ago so that is what prompted me to come and read it again)
Thank you Chris and many others for all your contributions.

Anyway long post I know but watch this space. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk playing on the small piece but I really believe it will be worth it in the
long run.

Cheers,

Zak

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:25 pm

Quote from: Zakblue on Yesterday at 10:14 PMI love this thread. I've spent the last week scanning through the entire thing.
I am a bass trombonist that, like many has moved around so many different mouthpieces since I started playing.
I've freelanced on bigger pieces mainly over the last 3 years. My go-to mouth piece was the Schilke 60
and before that I was using G&W Bob Sanders (very similar to 60) and more recently the G&W Nor Easter.
I had played on the 60 exclusively for the last year and a half. At Uni I spent most of my time on 59
sized pieces and the Laskey 85MD towards the end.

I am currently working towards some orchestral auditions and with lots of free time on my hands decided to try
some different pieces. I felt that my playing was reasonable on the 60, but incredibly taxing for loud upper register
playing. I also didn't like the articulation I was getting on the 60 - never clean enough.
The most obvious problem I had with it was the tendency for it go flat in the harmonics above top of the stave Bb. I know
I had been making micro adjustments because of this for years.

I've felt that ever since I was at uni, there was a kind of 'passive bullying' going on from professionals and
semi professional students to always push big gear. I had a few teachers that would encourage for me to play on the
biggest mouthpiece and to not bother with anything like the 1.5g size. I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low. I feel like this is some of the worst advice
i'd received - and it came from a highly respected professional who held a principal chair.

There were some colleagues of mine however who had heard me play on smaller gear. Tenor trombone friends who had heard me
play on a 1.5g and schilke 59 (coming from something bigger than that) and remarked how much better I sounded on the smaller stuff.
I wish I could go back, take their advice and never stray.

So anyway, as I was saying with my abundance of free time I pulled out my draw full of mouthpieces. I set up my Zoom H6 microphone and played to
it over a couple of days and listened and compared. I then went into another room in the house which I have acoustically treated and played some
more. I was really surprised at what I heard. The most interesting and desirable sounding playing came from the most uncomfortable piece that I
had. A DAMN BACH 2G!

The first time I played on it, I actually said whilst recording 'oh my god I can't play that f****n thing' - I then listened back and the sound had
much more character, interest and core to it than anything else I tried (about 10 mouthpieces)

Now it has a few problems. It plays relatively sharp. On my Shires I have to pull the tuning slide a fair way out to get a Bb @ 441 and it tends to want to
sit on the high side. I'm guessing that's also partially me getting used to the thing (I am cold turkey from 1.5 years on a Schilke 60)
The other problem is the trigger register and below. From about trigger D and below the 2g is hard work and can sound a bit gnarly.
I don't mind that though. I'm happy to do the work because that mid and lower mid register just sounds so good to me.
High range better but a bit weird, I have a few extra notes on top but it's going to take a bit to get used to.

(I remember reading this thread YEARS ago so that is what prompted me to come and read it again)
Thank you Chris and many others for all your contributions.

Anyway long post I know but watch this space. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk playing on the small piece but I really believe it will be worth it in the
long run.

Cheers,

Zak

Your profile says you studied in Melbourne? You don't have to of course, but could you pm me which teacher (s) pushed you into bigger gear? My experience studying on Melbourne was the exact opposite, and I think I studied with most of the orchestral players around town at some point or another.....

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:43 am

Quote I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low.

Well, some teachers......

Is it not one of the strange ideas that some bass trombone players have today? There is contrabass trombones around.
The most beautiful sound of the bass trombone is including at least a high C isn´t it? GR played a nice high D i remember it well.

That said I have heard beautiful playing on much bigger sizes then what I play, but a lot of woofy sound also.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:03 am

Quote from: Zakblue on Oct 07, 2017, 10:14PMI love this thread. I've spent the last week scanning through the entire thing.
I am a bass trombonist that, like many has moved around so many different mouthpieces since I started playing.
I've freelanced on bigger pieces mainly over the last 3 years. My go-to mouth piece was the Schilke 60
and before that I was using G&W Bob Sanders (very similar to 60) and more recently the G&W Nor Easter.
I had played on the 60 exclusively for the last year and a half. At Uni I spent most of my time on 59
sized pieces and the Laskey 85MD towards the end.

I am currently working towards some orchestral auditions and with lots of free time on my hands decided to try
some different pieces. I felt that my playing was reasonable on the 60, but incredibly taxing for loud upper register
playing. I also didn't like the articulation I was getting on the 60 - never clean enough.
The most obvious problem I had with it was the tendency for it go flat in the harmonics above top of the stave Bb. I know
I had been making micro adjustments because of this for years.

I've felt that ever since I was at uni, there was a kind of 'passive bullying' going on from professionals and
semi professional students to always push big gear. I had a few teachers that would encourage for me to play on the
biggest mouthpiece and to not bother with anything like the 1.5g size. I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low. I feel like this is some of the worst advice
i'd received - and it came from a highly respected professional who held a principal chair.

There were some colleagues of mine however who had heard me play on smaller gear. Tenor trombone friends who had heard me
play on a 1.5g and schilke 59 (coming from something bigger than that) and remarked how much better I sounded on the smaller stuff.
I wish I could go back, take their advice and never stray.

So anyway, as I was saying with my abundance of free time I pulled out my draw full of mouthpieces. I set up my Zoom H6 microphone and played to
it over a couple of days and listened and compared. I then went into another room in the house which I have acoustically treated and played some
more. I was really surprised at what I heard. The most interesting and desirable sounding playing came from the most uncomfortable piece that I
had. A DAMN BACH 2G!

The first time I played on it, I actually said whilst recording 'oh my god I can't play that f****n thing' - I then listened back and the sound had
much more character, interest and core to it than anything else I tried (about 10 mouthpieces)

Now it has a few problems. It plays relatively sharp. On my Shires I have to pull the tuning slide a fair way out to get a Bb @ 441 and it tends to want to
sit on the high side. I'm guessing that's also partially me getting used to the thing (I am cold turkey from 1.5 years on a Schilke 60)
The other problem is the trigger register and below. From about trigger D and below the 2g is hard work and can sound a bit gnarly.
I don't mind that though. I'm happy to do the work because that mid and lower mid register just sounds so good to me.
High range better but a bit weird, I have a few extra notes on top but it's going to take a bit to get used to.

(I remember reading this thread YEARS ago so that is what prompted me to come and read it again)
Thank you Chris and many others for all your contributions.

Anyway long post I know but watch this space. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk playing on the small piece but I really believe it will be worth it in the
long run.

Cheers,

Zak

Hey Zak,
Very enjoyable post from you. 10 years ago I was in a similar position as you. I had played a 60 size mouthpiece for many years and decided to move to a 1 and 1/2G. I bought a 1970s era piece and went to work. I also experienced some of the same issues you are-lower range not speaking properly, especially the pedal register. Maybe because I was stubborn, who knows, it took me about 6 months to comfortably play in all registers with the 1 and 1/2G. Ultimately I found a couple of nice MV pieces that I use full time on several different instruments. it's not for everyone as many have pointed out here on The Forum but if you're committed to it you'll make it work. Good Luck!

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:27 am

Interesting stuff Zac, the 2G although very close to the 1 1/2G, is a different (and rather special) beast. Many of the players I have, and still admire played that mouthpiece. I tried going back on it this summer, but it still messes with my dental structure. I have had several students who found it to be their mouthpiece.... perhaps it is yours too !!

Chris Stearn

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:38 pm

Quote from: blast on Oct 08, 2017, 11:27AMInteresting stuff Zac, the 2G although very close to the 1 1/2G, is a different (and rather special) beast. Many of the players I have, and still admire played that mouthpiece. I tried going back on it this summer, but it still messes with my dental structure. I have had several students who found it to be their mouthpiece.... perhaps it is yours too !!

Chris Stearn
I tried out a Rath 2 a few weeks ago-I sounded like an amateur.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:16 pm

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Oct 08, 2017, 01:38PMI tried out a Rath 2 a few weeks ago-I sounded like an amateur.

I think in fact I could make the 2g size work. Here is a video of me playing Bach sarabande on a MV mouthpiece that was supposed to be a copy of the Bach Mt Vernon mouthpiece GR played. In size its maybe closer to a 2g than a 1 1&2g. Its not good playing but I think it shows the sound. Recorded with an old Zoom Q3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q32s2q2WIUQ

Leif

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:51 pm

Quote from: savio on Oct 09, 2017, 02:16PM Its not good playing but I think it shows the sound. Recorded with an old Zoom Q3.

Leif

For actual sound you have nothing to worry about IMO. I wish more bass trombonists made this type of vocal tone.

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:08 pm

Quote from: Pre59 on Oct 09, 2017, 02:51PMFor actual sound you have nothing to worry about IMO. I wish more bass trombonists made this type of vocal tone.

I'll get my coat...

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:06 pm

Quote from: Pre59 on Oct 10, 2017, 01:08PMI'll get my coat...

There are still the players out there..... I've taught a few of them

Chris Stearn

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:58 pm

Quote from: blast on Oct 10, 2017, 02:06PMThere are still the players out there..... I've taught a few of them

Chris Stearn

Not a criticism of the players themselves, but the sound concept.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:10 pm

Quote from: Pre59 on Oct 09, 2017, 02:51PMFor actual sound you have nothing to worry about IMO. I wish more bass trombonists made this type of vocal tone.

I think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/ Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

ttf_Zakblue · Post by **ttf_Zakblue** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:28 am

Thanks for the comments.
A bit over a week on the 2g and things are coming along.
I think it has helped that i've spent a while working at my high register on big pieces like the 60/G&W Nor Easter.
The high range is so much easier.
I practically had a day off playing yesterday so today when I went to buzz the mouthpiece my chops were like 'w t f' and no sound came out for a bit. After some persistence things started to come back.
Buzzing low is certainly difficult at the moment.
I recorded myself playing though and all in all i'm glad I made the change. Gonna stick with it through thick and thin.
Oh yeah and if anyone asks ---- i'm playing a BACH 1G (i'll still be cool then) lol

ttf_ntap · Post by **ttf_ntap** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:36 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Oct 10, 2017, 06:10PMI think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/ Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

Thats Max Siegel (with a G). Hes one of the greatest. Be sure to check out his album Siphonophore, hes equally as talented an arranger and composer.
I know Max plays a Curry of sort on his Holton 185 - not sure if its a 1.5G, but its for sure not a bathtub.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:37 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Oct 10, 2017, 02:58PMNot a criticism of the players themselves, but the sound concept.

Of course. Listen to professional bass trombone players in the UK and you will hear things you like.... orchestras, pits, jazz.... there is a commonality of sound that might be best termed 'classic' bass trombone.
In some ways this has been an unplanned unscripted story.... but I think the truth is that it is because of the massive figure of Bob Hughes providing a sonic glue for several generations of players in the UK.
Bob became a friend when we were both young professionals, starting out on a career. He had a class to his playing and sound, right from the early days that inspired all who heard him. Everybody said 'wow... if I could only sound like Bob'. Through his many recordings, all generations that followed had access to his sound (I know, it's not the same as live) and he has now taught very many players who continue his tradition.
One guy at the heart of British bass trombone playing.

Chris Stearn

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:03 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Oct 10, 2017, 06:10PMI think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/ Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

It sounds like you might enjoy a 1970 (very close miked) bass tbn solo by Bill Geldard, "Nelsons Blues" on iTunes.

Bill G was a well established tenor player prior to the bass tbn "boom". I believe he mainly writes for BBB's now.

ttf_Edward_Solomon · Post by **ttf_Edward_Solomon** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:45 am

Quote from: blast on Oct 11, 2017, 01:37AMOf course. Listen to professional bass trombone players in the UK and you will hear things you like.... orchestras, pits, jazz.... there is a commonality of sound that might be best termed 'classic' bass trombone.
In some ways this has been an unplanned unscripted story.... but I think the truth is that it is because of the massive figure of Bob Hughes providing a sonic glue for several generations of players in the UK.
Bob became a friend when we were both young professionals, starting out on a career. He had a class to his playing and sound, right from the early days that inspired all who heard him. Everybody said 'wow... if I could only sound like Bob'. Through his many recordings, all generations that followed had access to his sound (I know, it's not the same as live) and he has now taught very many players who continue his tradition.
One guy at the heart of British bass trombone playing.

Chris Stearn

And before him, Ray Premru.

ttf_Gabe Langfur · Post by **ttf_Gabe Langfur** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:23 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Oct 10, 2017, 06:10PMI think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/ Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

Max Seigel is a friend and a unique, beautiful musician and bass trombone player. I've tried to ask him how he plays that way, and he won't say much about it. Someday...

That Holton he has is a very special, extremely responsive instrument (maybe because he's taught it to play that way), and he plays a Curry 1D, which is sort of a smallish 1 size at the rim with a modest cup. Not a bathtub, but nowhere close to a 1-1/2G.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:44 am

Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Oct 15, 2017, 06:23AMMax Seigel is a friend and a unique, beautiful musician and bass trombone player. I've tried to ask him how he plays that way, and he won't say much about it. Someday...

That Holton he has is a very special, extremely responsive instrument (maybe because he's taught it to play that way), and he plays a Curry 1D, which is sort of a smallish 1 size at the rim with a modest cup. Not a bathtub, but nowhere close to a 1-1/2G.

Hard for me to believe that I actually sold that 185 to Max many moons ago. What a fine player and a great guy!

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:52 pm

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Oct 15, 2017, 06:44AMHard for me to believe that I actually sold that 185 to Max many moons ago. What a fine player and a great guy!

Lucky he doesn't play a boutique horn.... he would wipe us all out

Or a 1 1/2G Bach

Close call...

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:06 pm

Quote from: ntap on Oct 11, 2017, 12:36AMThats Max Siegel (with a G). Hes one of the greatest. Be sure to check out his album Siphonophore, hes equally as talented an arranger and composer.
I know Max plays a Curry of sort on his Holton 185 - not sure if its a 1.5G, but its for sure not a bathtub.

Yeah, sorry for misspelling his name. The horn had that Holton vibe and it was definitely a plugin valve. Thx for the lead on other stuff hes done.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:00 am

I now have a kind of "luksus" problem. I have two Mt Vernons 1 1/2g. Both very nice and I have not found out which of them to use. One is silver and one have a gold rim and cup. I also have one regular Bach 1 1/2g and one Artisan 1 1/2g. The Mt Vernons are much better in sound, more depth and more "creamy" if you understand. There is no doubt the Vernons are better quality. The rim on the regular doesn't feel good, the rim on the Artisan feels a little thin but still quite ok. The rim on the two Mt Vernons are more comfortable and I think they are more flat. The difference between the two Mt Vernons are that the silver one is a hair bigger on the mouth. But its maybe more about how the rim countur is. Still I cant see any difference. Sound is about the same, excelent.

Well, anyway, its a "luksus" problem, but as you all know I have sometimes problems with choices so I have been playing both Mt Vernons for some time, but mostly the gold rim because the gold feels nice on the mouth. Sound is still nearly same on both but the gold one seems to be a hair more secure. The silver might have a little more punch in the beginning/attacks of notes. Choices...never easy for me.

Leif

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:21 am

Seems clear to me that you should part with one of them. I'll trade ya something!

ttf_tbarh · Post by **ttf_tbarh** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:39 am

Quote from: savio on Yesterday at 07:00 AMI now have a kind of "luksus" problem. I have two Mt Vernons 1 1/2g. Both very nice and I have not found out which of them to use. One is silver and one have a gold rim and cup. I also have one regular Bach 1 1/2g and one Artisan 1 1/2g. The Mt Vernons are much better in sound, more depth and more "creamy" if you understand. There is no doubt the Vernons are better quality. The rim on the regular doesn't feel good, the rim on the Artisan feels a little thin but still quite ok. The rim on the two Mt Vernons are more comfortable and I think they are more flat. The difference between the two Mt Vernons are that the silver one is a hair bigger on the mouth. But its maybe more about how the rim countur is. Still I cant see any difference. Sound is about the same, excelent.

Well, anyway, its a "luksus" problem, but as you all know I have sometimes problems with choices so I have been playing both Mt Vernons for some time, but mostly the gold rim because the gold feels nice on the mouth. Sound is still nearly same on both but the gold one seems to be a hair more secure. The silver might have a little more punch in the beginning/attacks of notes. Choices...never easy for me.

Leif

Hei Leif! Åssen gåre?

I personally have a problem with gold plate rim, as They tends to be too slippery.. You tend to "slide" away (Pardon the pun) from the "sweet spot" and needs to press the piece harder on the mouth.. I usually keeps my mouthpiece in my pocket together with my carkeys.. Problem Solved

. Besides I play on a Rath B2W with an extremly wide rim contour. Works really Great BTW!

Trond

ttf_John McKevitt · Post by **ttf_John McKevitt** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:14 am

I haven't read this whole 84 page post so excuse me if I am repeating what someone might have already mentioned. Is it absurd to have a Large Bass Trombone setup and also a smaller setup? Tenor Trombonist do it who both play Jazz and Classical . What I have used in the past to play 2nd( Bass Trombone) Trombone in a Pit Orchestra , 3rd Trombone in a Concert Band , 2 Trombones in a Small Big Band is way different from what I choose to use Playing 5th Trb in a Big Band ,, Or playing the Tuba Parts In a Brass Quintet, Orchestral Bass Trombone or Covering "Tower Of Power" Bari parts in a Rock Band.I enjoy playing many styles of Music and I find the One Mouthpiece One Horn method does not meet my needs for all styles that I play. I choose My Equipment( mouthpiece and horn) for the type of music I will be playing . I have and use a 1 1/2G Megatone and a Greg Black 0G and others. I also play Tenor Trb,Lead Trombone, Jazz Trombone , Classical Tenor, Contrabass Trb and a 5/4 BBbb and a smaller 4/4 Bbb Tuba. Whatever Works ... Too Each Their Own. I kinda wish the "One Size Fits All " concept worked for me. It would be less expensive.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:24 am

Quote from: John McKevitt on Dec 18, 2017, 08:14AMI haven't read this whole 84 page post so excuse me if I am repeating what someone might have already mentioned. Is it absurd to have a Large Bass Trombone setup and also a smaller setup? Tenor Trombonist do it who both play Jazz and Classical . What I have used in the past to play 2nd( Bass Trombone) Trombone in a Pit Orchestra , 3rd Trombone in a Concert Band , 2 Trombones in a Small Big Band is way different from what I choose to use Playing 5th Trb in a Big Band ,, Or playing the Tuba Parts In a Brass Quintet, Orchestral Bass Trombone or Covering "Tower Of Power" Bari parts in a Rock Band.I enjoy playing many styles of Music and I find the One Mouthpiece One Horn method does not meet my needs for all styles that I play. I choose My Equipment( mouthpiece and horn) for the type of music I will be playing . I have and use a 1 1/2G Megatone and a Greg Black 0G and others. I also play Tenor Trb,Lead Trombone, Jazz Trombone , Classical Tenor, Contrabass Trb and a 5/4 BBbb and a smaller 4/4 Bbb Tuba. Whatever Works ... Too Each Their Own. I kinda wish the "One Size Fits All " concept worked for me. It would be less expensive.

If you have equipment that works for you, physically and sonically then you need for nothing.Over the last 84 pages I have repeated myself regularly. I have played big and small bass mouthpieces professionally in every kind of setting and both have plusses and minuses. In between sizes just seem for me to be the worst of all worlds.
The bottom line for me is sound, and I get closest to the sound I want on a Mt Vernon 1 1/2G Bach. Nothing else comes close... but people listening to me don't hear such a big difference,so it may be self satisfaction. I play a Mt Vernon 11 on small tenor and a MV 25 on small tuba and MV 24AW on big tuba. Elliott on contra and something odd on Euphonium.
To help with low bass trombone parts I carry a big mouthpiece in the case. I never use it, but knowing it is there makes the 1 1/2G work great.

Chris Stearn

ttf_EWadie99 · Post by **ttf_EWadie99** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:16 pm

The more I read this, the more I'm intrigued on trying on of this MT. Vernon Bach 1.5G, also the 2G. Or even a close equivalent would be just as good! Now I need to find a good vintage horn like a old Conn 62H, King Duo Gravis, old Bach 50, etc.

I'm sad to say my current Schilke 59 & 60 pieces, if it's as good as the hype is, you both have been replaced!

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:49 pm

Quote from: EWadie99 on Dec 18, 2017, 12:16PMThe more I read this, the more I'm intrigued on trying on of this MT. Vernon Bach 1.5G, also the 2G. Or even a close equivalent would be just as good! Now I need to find a good vintage horn like a old Conn 62H, King Duo Gravis, old Bach 50, etc.

I'm sad to say my current Schilke 59 & 60 pieces, if it's as good as the hype is, you both have been replaced!

Well Ethan, it's probably just old guys having a rant. If you listen to old recordings of bass trombone playing and think it sounds better than new recordings you are heading to retro gear. Most people like the newer sounds. If you try a MV 1 1/2G you might love it.. you might not. Nearest thing made today is the Greg Black 1 1/2G... if you get a good one. I am over in MA for Christmas and blowing my son's Bb/F Holton with a Greg Black 1 1/2G... feels great.

Chris Stearn

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:49 pm

Quote from: EWadie99 on Dec 18, 2017, 12:16PMThe more I read this, the more I'm intrigued on trying on of this MT. Vernon Bach 1.5G, also the 2G. Or even a close equivalent would be just as good! Now I need to find a good vintage horn like a old Conn 62H, King Duo Gravis, old Bach 50, etc.

I'm sad to say my current Schilke 59 & 60 pieces, if it's as good as the hype is, you both have been replaced!

Well Ethan, it's probably just old guys having a rant. If you listen to old recordings of bass trombone playing and think it sounds better than new recordings you are heading to retro gear. Most people like the newer sounds. If you try a MV 1 1/2G you might love it.. you might not. Nearest thing made today is the Greg Black 1 1/2G... if you get a good one. I am over in MA for Christmas and blowing my son's Bb/F Holton with a Greg Black 1 1/2G... feels great.

Chris Stearn