9 foot 3-4 valve brass

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skeletal
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9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by skeletal »

Bass trumpet/valve trombone/marching trombone/baritone/marching baritone/flugabone/trombonium/euphonium/marching trombone.

Which one's did I miss?
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BGuttman
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by BGuttman »

Among the Saxhons there are tenor, baritone, and bass. All the same length, different bore sizes. Nobody plays saxhorns any more, though (except in Civil War Reconstruction bands).

At one time there were American tenor horns, baritone horns, and bass horns patterned after the saxhorns. All looking like a later American baritone horn. Also pretty obsolete.
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Burgerbob
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Burgerbob »

There are marching euphoniums, and even bariphoniums if you want to split hairs enough.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by marccromme »

German Tenorhorn and German baritone. And of course frensh horn in Bb, and tenor Wagner tuba in Bb.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by elmsandr »

Wagner Tubas?
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Finetales
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Finetales »

The Bb side of all double and triple horns, marching Bb horn, Kaiser baritone, bass flugelhorn, bass cornet (very rare), ballad horn, and technically there are multiple distinct species of bass trumpet.
BGuttman wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:16 am Nobody plays saxhorns any more, though (except in Civil War Reconstruction bands).
Not quite true, bass saxhorn is still manufactured by Courtois, Willson, and probably PGM Couesnon, and there are people who play it very well.
Last edited by Finetales on Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by LeTromboniste »

Valved ophicleide
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jacobgarchik
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jacobgarchik »

tenor tuba
https://meisterinstrumente-kroning.de/i ... b/?lang=en

tenor helicon
https://www.virtuosityboston.com/wurlit ... licon.html

superbone




yeah saxhorn - still a thing in france.

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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Finetales »

jacobgarchik wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:36 pm tenor helicon
https://www.virtuosityboston.com/wurlit ... licon.html
Good one, tenor sousaphone as well.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jacobgarchik »

Tenor normaphone and tenor jazzophone

https://brasspedia.com/index.php?title=Normaphone
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jacobgarchik »

bonanza of forgotten configurations here, in tenor and baritone varieties too:

https://eabbpodcast.com/episode-7-inter ... collector/
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Doug Elliott »

In the late 1970's I heard a jazz player play a gig on Normaphone in DC, I think it was at the One Step Down. Maybe it was Scott Robinson.... ?
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by marccromme »

elmsandr wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:40 pmWagner Tubas?
Yes, usually played by frensh horn players in Nibelungen , Walkyrie or similar late romantic operas, often Wagner, Mahler, Berlioz. the most famous ones are from Alexander, Mainz, Germany.

https://gebr-alexander.de/en/wagner-tubas/
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by LeTromboniste »

marccromme wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:14 am
elmsandr wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:40 pmWagner Tubas?
Yes, usually played by frensh horn players in Nibelungen , Walkyrie or similar late romantic operas, often Wagner, Mahler, Berlioz. the most famous ones are from Alexander, Mainz, Germany.

https://gebr-alexander.de/en/wagner-tubas/
No Wagner tubas in Mahler or Berlioz that I know of (although both did write for other Bb valved instruments).

Strauss, Bruckner and Stravinsky, yes.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by marccromme »

LeTromboniste wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:49 am
marccromme wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:14 am

Yes, usually played by frensh horn players in Nibelungen , Walkyrie or similar late romantic operas, often Wagner, Mahler, Berlioz. the most famous ones are from Alexander, Mainz, Germany.

https://gebr-alexander.de/en/wagner-tubas/
No Wagner tubas in Mahler or Berlioz that I know of (although both did write for other Bb valved instruments).

Strauss, Bruckner and Stravinsky, yes.
Yes, you are right, I was thinking of Mahlers 7th, but it's tenor horn there.

But we forgot Schoenberg and Bartok
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Mikebmiller »

What is the difference between a saxhorn and a euphonium? Bore size?
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jacobgarchik »

more of a different wrap than a different instrument, but here's a variation on the bass trumpet.

https://www.kanstul.com/instruments/zig ... s-trumpet/
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by BGuttman »

Mikebmiller wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:35 pm What is the difference between a saxhorn and a euphonium? Bore size?
The saxhorn I'm most familiar with is the over the shoulder type. Very rare nowadays (again, except in Civil War Re-enactment bands).

The Saxhorn is more conical than a Baritone (English) instrument but less conical than a Euphonium.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by brassmedic »

jacobgarchik wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:55 am whatever you call this

http://www.brassark.com/museum/closecornu.html
That's the Cornu I built for Noah. It was a military instrument in ancient Rome. The valves are a modern addition, obviously. These are some originals they found in Pompeii.
cornu.png
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Posaunus »

LeTromboniste wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:49 am
marccromme wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:14 am Wagner tubas?

Yes, usually played by french horn players in Nibelungen, Walkyrie or similar late romantic operas, often Wagner, Mahler, Berlioz. The most famous ones are from Alexander, Mainz, Germany.

https://gebr-alexander.de/en/wagner-tubas/
No Wagner tubas in Mahler or Berlioz that I know of (although both did write for other Bb valved instruments).

Strauss, Bruckner and Stravinsky, yes.
Bruckner Symphony #7:
The symphony requires the following orchestra:
• woodwinds: 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets in A, 2 bassoons
• brass: 4 horns in F, 3 trumpets in F, 3 trombones, 4 Wagner tubas (2 B♭ tenors, 2 F basses)*, contrabass tuba
• percussion: timpani, cymbals, triangle
• strings: violins 1, 2, violas, violoncellos, double basses

* Used in the 2nd and 4th movements only.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by LeTromboniste »

Posaunus wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:41 pm
LeTromboniste wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:49 am

No Wagner tubas in Mahler or Berlioz that I know of (although both did write for other Bb valved instruments).

Strauss, Bruckner and Stravinsky, yes.
Bruckner Symphony #7:
The symphony requires the following orchestra:
• woodwinds: 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets in A, 2 bassoons
• brass: 4 horns in F, 3 trumpets in F, 3 trombones, 4 Wagner tubas (2 B♭ tenors, 2 F basses)*, contrabass tuba
• percussion: timpani, cymbals, triangle
• strings: violins 1, 2, violas, violoncellos, double basses

* Used in the 2nd and 4th movements only.
Yes, definitely used in Bruckner
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jacobgarchik »

You learn something new every day!


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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Kbiggs »

Burgerbob wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:13 pm There are marching euphoniums, and even bariphoniums if you want to split hairs enough.
“Bariphonium” sounds like a medical procedure.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Ozzlefinch »

Not sure where my 4 valvers fit in. One thing I do know for certain is that I really need to figure out how to take a decent photo of them. I currently have 2, one is in the shop getting it's 100 year tune-up.

Image
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JohnL
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by JohnL »

Ozzlefinch wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:50 amne thing I do know for certain is that I really need to figure out how to take a decent photo of them.
A couple suggestions:

1) Use nature's softbox; shoot outdoors on a cloudy day (basically, you want it just cloudy enough that you cast little to no shadow.

2) Set up someplace where you have enough room to take a few steps back rather than having to use a wide-angle lens (or a wide-angle setting on a zoom camera).

3) Shoot square on rather than at an angle.

Almost everything on my site was shot in my back yard on cloudy days using old sheets as backdrops. The horn is on a stand (sometimes I put the stand on a table so I don't have to get down so low) and I try to keep the camera level.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by MrHCinDE »

Tenor fanfare trumpet
Bass Flügelhorn (the one in the picture below is on the way to me, should be here in the next couple of days 😀)
55F85C3D-308C-4664-B691-1A649BFCB324.png
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jacobgarchik »

from a facebook weird instrument group
valved alphorn
*literally* 9 foot
Screen Shot 2024-03-13 at 3.14.36 PM.png
Screen Shot 2024-03-13 at 3.14.43 PM.png
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by marccromme »

jacobgarchik wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:19 pm from a facebook weird instrument group
valved alphorn
*literally* 9 foot
Cool. First time ever I have seen a brass and valved alphorn. I did only encountour Wooden ones
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by 2bobone »

I don't know the first thing about "Alp Horns" with valves [Is that a Valph-Horn ?] but I definitely remember being in the Wallowa mountains, the "Alps" of Oregon {C= 1985 ?], where I discovered an Alphorn hanging over the counter inside a convenience store. The owner was delighted when I told him that I could play it and the resulting photograph is my proof ! I'm sure that my resounding efforts disturbed a whole lotta fauna and flora ! That sucker could REALLY project [although my son at ground ZERO didn't seem too upset !] !
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by 2bobone »

"Bass Flügelhorn (the one in the picture below is on the way to me, should be here in the next couple of days 😀)"

Hmmmm ! It looks almost identical to the Mirafone "Tenor Horn" I bought from Roger Bobo back in the mid-60's ! I believe that Leonhard Paul of the Mnozil Brass plays the same instrument on many occasions.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by Finetales »

I can't remember who, but there is a brass maker who sells valve sections that you can plug into existing wooden alphorns.
2bobone wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:40 pm "Bass Flügelhorn (the one in the picture below is on the way to me, should be here in the next couple of days 😀)"

Hmmmm ! It looks almost identical to the Mirafone "Tenor Horn" I bought from Roger Bobo back in the mid-60's ! I believe that Leonhard Paul of the Mnozil Brass plays the same instrument on many occasions.
Leonhard played a beer hall bass trumpet like that a long time ago, but he's been playing on Schagerl horns along with the rest of Mnozil for many years. First he had a custom made top-action rotary bass flugelhorn, and now he plays a standard Schagerl Wunderhorn.
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Re: 9 foot 3-4 valve brass

Post by jonathanharker »

V.F. Červený invented (1867 patent) a line of instruments from at least E♭ alto to B♭ contrabass, called the armeeposaune which were cylindrical bore saxhorn-shaped instruments, with the upward bell pointed forwards. I'm pretty sure the contrabass in 18' B♭ (pictured) would make a great cimbasso for Verdi and Puccini.
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