Embouchure and pitch

How and what to teach and learn.
Post Reply
rmb796
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Embouchure and pitch

Post by rmb796 »

Hi everyone,
Trying to understand why some players play below the pitch and some are above. I seem to always be pushed in pretty far and have even had my bach 42 tuning slide shortened 1/2 inch. ( I do tune off the bumper approximately a 1/2 inch.)
Thanks
Randy
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 5068
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by Burgerbob »

I think it's more of an oral cavity/body thing, but I'd love to know that mechanism as well.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
AndrewMeronek
Posts: 1127
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm
Location: Detroit area
Contact:

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by AndrewMeronek »

I don't know and I suspect the answer is pretty complex. I've seen some people who are always above or below the pitch even when they make major adjustments in the tuning slide and I've seen other people who have wildly different pitch results by changing mouthpieces or leadpipes.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
trombonedemon
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:25 pm
Location: NC

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by trombonedemon »

I know that bending notes usually involves loosening and tightening the embouchure.
Conn 112 H w/bored out rotors w/heavyweight caps, Sterling Silver Edward's B3 and Shires B3 leadpipe w/62H slide. Long Island Brass Comp Dimensions 29.5 inner rim .323 backbore solid silver lefreque
User avatar
EriKon
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:03 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by EriKon »

Not necessarily. You can also bend notes with just the right tongue action which makes it a lot more effective.
baileyman
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:33 pm

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by baileyman »

Yes, with no change in embouchure. Try using the motion of a "draw" in harmonica, otherwise think of forcing a too large cavity with tongue, high in the back, making space in the front.

I seem to recall some acoustics discussion where the effective length of the horn not only included length to the node beyond the bell (depends on pitch), but also some length into the mouth. The explanation could be in there somewhere. If I'm not imagining the whole thing...
User avatar
VJOFan
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:39 am

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by VJOFan »

I would guess, whatever the physical action is that causes it, the reason for consistent pitch tendency is the same as the reasons people pick their clothing or hair styles- ir's what feels right, or in this case, sounds beautiful to the individual. A player will do what it takes, wittingly or not, to get the resonance they like.

I play on the low side naturally, and when I sit beside someone who needs to pull out a lot to be in tune, I usually don't enjoy their sound too much.
"And that's one man's opinion," Doug Collins, CFJC-TV News 1973-2013
User avatar
Richard3rd
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by Richard3rd »

Not an expert here but an avid listener to different approaches. My take is that too large an oral cavity with the tongue level not supporting the sound produces the low pitch. Too much tension in the embouchure produces the high pitch. I sit in a section of two other players, one is alway low and the other high. Listening is painful. When they tune to a tuner app, they artificially change their pitch resulting in a dull sound because they loose the resonant center. What a struggle. Then they go back to playing and the same high and low continues.
Richard

King 2280 Euphonium
King 1130 Marching Trombone (Flugabone)
TomInME
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:44 pm

Re: Embouchure and pitch

Post by TomInME »

Richard3rd wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:48 am When they tune to a tuner app, they artificially change their pitch resulting in a dull sound because they loose the resonant center. What a struggle. Then they go back to playing and the same high and low continues.
Sounds like they're adjusting with their eyes, not their ears...
DE LB113mW/L/L8 (all-around)
50B3LOG-LT w/ "open" leadpipe
Post Reply

Return to “Teaching & Learning”