Question on air direction when playing high notes

[atopper333]

Hello all…

I have a question. I’ve been really digging in to working on my high range, or C/D 5 ledger lines above the staff. I’ve been focusing on not tensing up and have been looking at a few exercises such as working chromatically up to the note from an octave down and lip slurs while focusing on each note.

The question isn’t really on those. The one thing I keep coming across as I’ve been watching and reading on the topic is to aim the air down slightly when playing a higher note.

I then to shift my air upwards in the mouthpiece and try to move my jaw as little as possible. It seems counter intuitive to what I normally do, so the question is, is what I’m doing counterproductive, and does what I do place a ‘mechanical’ limit so to say, on being able efficiently play in the higher register?

[LeTromboniste]

Hello all…

I have a question. I’ve been really digging in to working on my high range, or C/D 5 ledger lines above the staff. I’ve been focusing on not tensing up and have been looking at a few exercises such as working chromatically up to the note from an octave down and lip slurs while focusing on each note.

The question isn’t really on those. The one thing I keep coming across as I’ve been watching and reading on the topic is to aim the air down slightly when playing a higher note.

I then to shift my air upwards in the mouthpiece and try to move my jaw as little as possible. It seems counter intuitive to what I normally do, so the question is, is what I’m doing counterproductive, and does what I do place a ‘mechanical’ limit so to say, on being able efficiently play in the higher register?

Depending on your embouchure type, the advice you found can be what you need or exactly the opposite of what you need

[BGuttman]

I read in one of the Trombone "manuals" (Wick, Kleinhammer, Fink) that as you play higher you point the air toward the rim of the mouthpiece and as you play lower you point more toward the aperture. If you are upstream, that means pointing more up and if you are downstream that means pointing more down as you ascend.

Doug Elliott found for him that as he ascends he pulls down and to one side. If you play like Doug, that will work for you too.

Keep an open mind as you experiment. Remember that we are all different and what works for one person may work for you too. Or not.

[Doug Elliott]

Impossible to know from your description. I'd have to see it.

And it's not about "trying" to blow up or down. It's going to go whichever direction based on mouthpiece placement and mechanics

[imsevimse]

Hello all…

I have a question. I’ve been really digging in to working on my high range, or C/D 5 ledger lines above the staff. I’ve been focusing on not tensing up and have been looking at a few exercises such as working chromatically up to the note from an octave down and lip slurs while focusing on each note.

The question isn’t really on those. The one thing I keep coming across as I’ve been watching and reading on the topic is to aim the air down slightly when playing a higher note.

I then to shift my air upwards in the mouthpiece and try to move my jaw as little as possible. It seems counter intuitive to what I normally do, so the question is, is what I’m doing counterproductive, and does what I do place a ‘mechanical’ limit so to say, on being able efficiently play in the higher register?

Video?

/Tom

[atopper333]

Impossible to know from your description. I'd have to see it.

And it's not about "trying" to blow up or down. It's going to go whichever direction based on mouthpiece placement and mechanics

Ah, okay. I’m looking at putting some money aside for a private lesson at some point…got a lot to learn and have multiple questions regarding my embouchure and mouthpieces…

[quote=atopper333 post_id=229740 time=<a href="tel:1704288532">1704288532</a> user_id=15001]

Video?

/Tom

I’ll try to take one and post it…unfortunately I’m rather technologically challenged to a certain extent. I will research how to post a video on the forum…working with a cellphone only, so it may not be the best quality, but I’ll try to figure it out…

[atopper333]

I read in one of the Trombone "manuals" (Wick, Kleinhammer, Fink) that as you play higher you point the air toward the rim of the mouthpiece and as you play lower you point more toward the aperture. If you are upstream, that means pointing more up and if you are downstream that means pointing more down as you ascend.

Doug Elliott found for him that as he ascends he pulls down and to one side. If you play like Doug, that will work for you too.

Keep an open mind as you experiment. Remember that we are all different and what works for one person may work for you too. Or not.

I do really appreciate the explanation on up and down stream, for some reason, I was finding it difficult to understand. Maybe I was just overthinking it…a comment problem of mine…

[baileyman]

If a mental image or belief about what is going on helps it happen, keep it up. There are competing images and beliefs for the same things that work well for others. It's really hard for the various faiths to speak with each other though.

[CaptEquinox]

Another way of putting it is that there’s a difference between “trying” to make that high range downward airstream thing happen and “letting” it happen because your chops are really already doing it. The phenomenon is described in more than one pedagogical book. Did they all get it from Denis Wick? The guys who authored those books all have downstream chops, but Denis does mention that upstream players exist.

[atopper333]

Still working on that video, works had me tied up a good deal and I haven’t been able to practice more than four times in the last month…which seriously doesn’t help!

Another way of putting it is that there’s a difference between “trying” to make that high range downward airstream thing happen and “letting” it happen because your chops are really already doing it. The phenomenon is described in more than one pedagogical book. Did they all get it from Denis Wick? The guys who authored those books all have downstream chops, but Denis does mention that upstream players exist.

This is definitely an interesting position. I honestly hadn’t thought about the types of players and their specific playing, or how common or uncommon an upstream player is. I come from a rather small town in Arizona…and have never had a private lesson let alone a band director who played low brass as a primary instrument, luck of the public school draw I guess. I think maybe I do need to settle in and do a good deal more research on my end…sorting it all out can be difficult as understanding the terms and elements that go into an embouchure seem so specific, especially when I’ve gone on ‘feeling’ for so many years. The more and more I get into this, the more I realize how much getting some lessons will help.