Rath R10 vs Lawler

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Dbone
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Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by Dbone » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:50 am

How does the tone, play and build quality of Rath R10 compare to Lawler trombones?
TheSheriff
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:17 am

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Build quality of both is excellent. As to the other stuff, well, you gotta play 'em!

I have way more time on a Lawler trombone than I do a Rath trombone. I've only play tested several Rath's, never owned one. I find a Lawler to be very rich and character filled with a touch of rawness to the sound which is what I love about them. To me, a Rath is more legit sounding.

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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
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FeelMyRath
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by FeelMyRath » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:33 am

The R10 is fully modular, you can make it play and sound how you want it to, depending on your setup. There is no such thing as The R10, there are too many permeatations to make generalisations. I'm guessing the same can be said about Lawlers, but we don't have them on this side of the pond.
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TheSheriff
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:52 pm

FeelMyRath wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:33 am
The R10 is fully modular, you can make it play and sound how you want it to, depending on your setup. There is no such thing as The R10, there are too many permeatations to make generalisations. I'm guessing the same can be said about Lawlers, but we don't have them on this side of the pond.
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A Lawler is available in a variety of materials and bore sizes but they will all have that raw, hip, funkiness to their sound that I love, and so do many other folks. I have never played or heard a Rath that has those qualities. A Lawler has a very unique signature to its sound.

A Lawler can be had anywhere in the world. All you have to do is order one.

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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
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mrdeacon
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:35 pm

I always describe my R1 as a super charged Bach 16. They share a number of design similarities with Bach.
Conn 88H 1980s, Elliott XT
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Symington 1 1/2
TheSheriff
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:36 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:35 pm
I always describe my R1 as a super charged Bach 16. They share a number of design similarities with Bach.
====

Good description.

====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
AndyBaker
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by AndyBaker » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:38 pm

I'm in the enviable position of having both, and I've spent a lot of time playing both. Actually, I have owned 4 Raths, and 4 Lawlers (currently have 2 of each) - They are all wonderful trombones!

Both are beautifully made, and fully customizable so it is going to come down to personal preference - I don't think anyone could say that one is better than the other.

As for sound? They are quite different. The Lawler definitely has a unique sound - it's very personal and has a 'fuzz' or something to it. A beautiful jazz sound.
The Rath is somehow more 'pure' and compact.

Like I said, they're both beautiful - Buy one of each!

(Or if you're in Chicago, you can come and try mine)
mrdeacon
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:43 pm

Would you guys the Lawler as Conn 6Hish?
Conn 88H 1980s, Elliott XT
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Symington 1 1/2
AndyBaker
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by AndyBaker » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:47 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:43 pm
Would you guys the Lawler as Conn 6Hish?
Not really - I mean, more similar to a Conn than a Bach perhaps. But it's its own thing.
LIBrassCo
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by LIBrassCo » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:35 am

I have a customer with both, I will ask his opinion. I will also add he brought his Lawler to me for a slide alignment, and I was very impressed with the horn. Besides being an excellent value for the money, he's doing some interesting stuff on those horns, that gives them a very unique sound. I would highly recommend them.
Mikebmiller
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by Mikebmiller » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:08 pm

I love my Lawler, but have never played an R10. But I have an R3/F and it is great. So you can't really go wrong.
Dbone
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by Dbone » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:26 pm

For those with Lawler experience, what model do you play and what is your set up? Roy seems to prefer a complete yellow brass trombone, but I’ve read a lot on this site with red brass stems and nickel silver slides.
Mikebmiller
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by Mikebmiller » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:57 am

I was looking for a lead horn for big band. I ended up with red brass bell, 7 1/2" red brass flare, and nickel silver slide. I have bought an 8" red brass flare since then, but not played on it much.
AndyBaker
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by AndyBaker » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:22 pm

Dbone wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:26 pm
For those with Lawler experience, what model do you play and what is your set up? Roy seems to prefer a complete yellow brass trombone, but I’ve read a lot on this site with red brass stems and nickel silver slides.
.500/.508 bras slide with nickel bottom bow. 25 gauge (heavy) bell stem (yellow) and a nickel neck pipe.

Bell flares:
22 gage red-brass 7.5", no bead - Killing lead set-up
25 gage yellow 8 with traditional bead - Plays much bigger, like a .525 horn.
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DaveAshley
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by DaveAshley » Wed May 01, 2019 5:16 am

I picked my components at Roy's shop almost 3 years ago. Mine is a .025 yellow stem with all-nickel .500 slide. I have four flares - 8 inch .022 yellow, 8 inch .025 bronze, 7 3/4 .022 red, and 7 1/2 inch silver plated .022 yellow. I mostly use the bronze flare. It's simply incredible. I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. In fact, I may have it soldered in soon. It's easily the best match for me.
Yes, the setup is heavy, but it doesn't PLAY heavy!
I stopped playing the horn for about a year because I was having some problems with pain in my hands. I switched my grip a little and came back to it a few months ago. I'm glad I did! It's a super-refined horn with the deepest, richest, dare I say "manliest" sound I've ever gotten from a trombone. Seriously!! I can still play pretty and sweet on it, though.

I've got to try the other two models some time. Maybe I'll visit the shop again...
Dbone
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by Dbone » Tue May 14, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your comments on the Lawler trombone. I particularly like the descriptive words: warm, rich, and “manliest”.

This seems to match the same sentiments of the Sheriff and Andy Baker. The Lawler must really have a unique sound, which is very appealing.

For those with experience with the Lawler, does the bell stem alloy make much of a difference in the sound? I am particularly interest in the red brass vs the yellow brass. It seems like the bell flare has a greater impact on the color of the sound, but I am curious about the experiences from the owners.

Thanks,
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DaveAshley
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by DaveAshley » Tue May 14, 2019 11:12 pm

When I visited Roy's shop, I brought along my Earl Williams 6. I aimed to choose components to achieve a sound as close as possible to that of the Williams. I don't remember what differences I noticed in the red & yellow stems, but I do remember that Roy and I flat-out agreed that the yellow suited me better. That makes sense, since the Williams has an all-yellow bell section.Now, I can hardly say that my Lawler sounds like my Williams. Both instruments are their own thing! I might venture to say that the nickel or brass outer slide has more impact than the stem! I guess it all depends on the individual player.
If you're within a reasonable/affordable travel distance from Shelbyville, Tennessee, the best thing to do is visit the shop!
TheSheriff
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Re: Rath R10 vs Lawler

Post by TheSheriff » Wed May 15, 2019 7:51 pm

Dbone wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:16 pm
Hi Dave,

Thank you for your comments on the Lawler trombone. I particularly like the descriptive words: warm, rich, and “manliest”.

This seems to match the same sentiments of the Sheriff and Andy Baker. The Lawler must really have a unique sound, which is very appealing.

For those with experience with the Lawler, does the bell stem alloy make much of a difference in the sound? I am particularly interest in the red brass vs the yellow brass. It seems like the bell flare has a greater impact on the color of the sound, but I am curious about the experiences from the owners.

Thanks,
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The stem material definitely makes a difference in the sound as does everything else. I prefer the sound I get from my red stems but I also like the sound of Andy Baker's yellow stem. Ultimately, we end up sounding like we always do.

======
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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