TromboneChat

Hi,

I've heard of horns referred to as being "a chocolate" or "chocolate". Specifically I saw DJ post this about a Bach 36. Would like to know specifically what this refers to: playing characteristics?, sound?, finish? Or is this simply referring to an excellent example of a specific horn?

I am thinking Rocky Road.

But in this context, it is a phrase from the special DJ lexicon library.

Oh, grasshopper, you must be patient. Someday you will begin to understand DJese.

Like this:



You put the sheet up for the Grondahl, but only that song comes out the bell no matter what you do.

It's a horn that offers the player a selfish enjoyment.

"a chocolate" would probably be a treat or sweet to play. Just "chocolate" might be a horn that sounds dark and creamy. In any case, chocolate is always a good thing, right?

It might be best to not try to interpret DJ too literally. It's all some poetic slang.

Patina. Sound.

Well, I know that my MV Bach 36 sounded great. It had deep cocoa notes with cherry undertones and a hint of toasted nuts...

Or perhaps DJ was making a reference to the great trumpeter Chocolate Armenteros!

greenbean wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:09 am Well, I know that my MV Bach 36 sounded great. It had deep cocoa notes with cherry undertones and a hint of toasted nuts...

Nice one! Hey, I just thought of something - maybe the nut is behind the mouthpiece.

Bach horns of a certain vintage have a lacquer that patinas to a rich dark brown. Their playing characteristics usually reflect their visuals. My first horn was a chocolate 36.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:43 pm Like this:



You put the sheet up for the Grondahl, but only that song comes out the bell no matter what you do.

Not helpful at all

ngrinder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:17 am Bach horns of a certain vintage have a lacquer that patinas to a rich dark brown. Their playing characteristics usually reflect their visuals. My first horn was a chocolate 36.

Thank you!

Davidus1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:01 am Not helpful at all

neither is calling an instrument a chocolate, really

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:16 am

Davidus1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:01 am Not helpful at all

neither is calling an instrument a chocolate, really

I didn't create the term. Just move on if you aren't trying to help.

if you can't have a little fun, you're not really cut out to be a trombone player. Learn to play oboe if you're going to be so uptight

lighten up Francis

It’s definitely a DJ-ism, but it sort of makes sense!

ngrinder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:11 pm It’s definitely a DJ-ism, but it sort of makes sense!

Thanks! Definitely a DJ term like you said. Was curious if it was referring to overall quality or perhaps the patina as you mentioned. Thanks for the info!

I was asked once to describe my ideal bass trombone tone quality. “A river of chocoloate” is the first phrase that came to mind. Of course, I can’t speak to anything that come out of DJ’s head...

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:00 am "a chocolate" would probably be a treat or sweet to play. Just "chocolate" might be a horn that sounds dark and creamy. In any case, chocolate is always a good thing, right?

It might be best to not try to interpret DJ too literally. It's all some poetic slang.

Sounds like good advice!

Since we're speculating, how about this?

https://i0.wp.com/chocolatevault.com/wp ... C650&ssl=1

... or this?

I remember reading one or two of DJ's posts referring to chocolate 36s and it made sense to me straight away.

I played 2nd bone in a brass band 25 years or so ago and the young lady on first was playing a 36. On one occasion she played a solo piece accompanied by the band and the beauty of her sound has stayed with me since. The piece finished on a high Bb which sounded effortless.

I would easily describe her sound as chocolatey - thick, warm, sweet with just the right amount of edge.

I've been striving for a sound like that ever since.

PhilE wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:52 pm I remember reading one or two of DJ's posts referring to chocolate 36s and it made sense to me straight away.

I played 2nd bone in a brass band 25 years or so ago and the young lady on first was playing a 36. On one occasion she played a solo piece accompanied by the band and the beauty of her sound has stayed with me since. The piece finished on a high Bb which sounded effortless.

I would easily describe her sound as chocolatey - thick, warm, sweet with just the right amount of edge.

I've been striving for a sound like that ever since.

Thanks for sharing Phil!

Doubler wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:12 pm Since we're speculating, how about this?

https://i0.wp.com/chocolatevault.com/wp ... C650&ssl=1

... or this?

Nice!

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:27 pm I was asked once to describe my ideal bass trombone tone quality. “A river of chocoloate” is the first phrase that came to mind. Of course, I can’t speak to anything that come out of DJ’s head...

Thanks for the reply! "a river of chocolate" is a nice mental image.

ngrinder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:17 am Bach horns of a certain vintage have a lacquer that patinas to a rich dark brown. Their playing characteristics usually reflect their visuals. My first horn was a chocolate 36.

right on Nick.

Chocalate belled 36s, in DJs lexicon, refer to a phenomenon found with some vintage Bachs - a patina forms under the lacquer resulting in a rich dark, deep brown color resembling chocolate. Most players of these horns have also noted that they tend to play more towards the darker end of the spectrum, resulting in a tone that mirrors the color. I've seen some older King 2Bs from the 40s (I'm thinking late 302/early 40s) demonstrate this as well - although most 2Bs tend to play pretty dark for a horn that size so I don't know if you'd notice the huge difference in sound on a 2B as is obvious on Bachs like this. It's pretty noticeable when you compare one back to back with a horn from the same era without the same patina.

One of the most interesting horns I played at DJ's (this was a few years ago on my way to a gig at the Chicago blues fest) was a Bach 6 with a really extreme example of this phenomenon. It was a dark, deep green - like, nightmarishly blackish swamp green (but in a good way if that makes sense). Bell was a different mandrel (a III or IV maybe?) than the normal garden variety 6 and the slide felt heavy and thick compared to most 6s I've played. Slide was great though, and the sound could only be described as "Thiccccccc" - I think it may have been a closet horn given its amazing condition. When I asked DJ about selling it he replied "It ain't for sale, man."

I'm pretty sure one of DJ's TTF posts referred to the chocolate 36 bells having been manufactured in the late 70s to early 80s.

I have a “chocolate” 36 made in early 80s. Looked gnarly ( patina under lacquer also flaking a bit) when I bought it, looks worse now it’s been so used. But it is my old faithful horn. After trying and owning a few pre Elkhart 36s (and prototype model 30, 34s) I think the Corp. horns and a bit later really nailed the 36 formula and sound as DJ and others have described. It is my most played, everything horn with THAT sound. My desert island trombone!

Kingfan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:16 am
Nice one! Hey, I just thought of something - maybe the nut is behind the mouthpiece.

Now, that is a good one! And it might be true!