TromboneChat

Hi all

During a recent rehearsal I became alarmingly aware of air escaping through my nasal passage !
What is causing this and can I do something to prevent it? Being that it is involunatry I am quite worried.
I have never experienced this before.
Thanks for time and constructive suggestions.
Sam

My only suggestion, which I think has worked for students with that problem, is to make it voluntary so you learn to have control over it.

On and off the horn, practice letting air out of you nose and stopping it.  Learn what that action feels like.  It's the difference between AHH and NG, so say or sing "Gong-ong-ong-AHH and that sort of thing.

Try to figure out exactly when it happens - articulating or sustain? High or low?  Loud or soft?  Maybe that will give you clues about what to watch for.

If it is related to articulation, do a lot of no-tongue playing so you get the feel of continuous air flow without having it happen.

It's really not unusual for things like this to creep into the playing of "natural players" who have never had to think about how they do things.

If you have absolutely no control over it, it could a be a sign of palatal perforation.  It might not be a bad idea to have a doctor take a peek.

I sometimes get this towards the end of the night, when I've been playing too long/ too hard/ too loud/ too soft/ too tense (overcontrolled pianissimo whole notes seem to be a downfall). If it happens in a rehearsal, that's my cue to start packing up. If it happens in a performance, I drink water for the rest of the set (it helps my soft palate seal a little, I think), and I try not to listen to my awful hisssssssss.

For me personally, because it seems to be a straight-up fatigue thing, I'm wary of trying Doug's method, but please let us know if you have success with it.

I posted about this at the beginning of the year but got no response.

This happens to me on and off and has done for a good few years now . It's always when I'm playing loud...I'll suddenly feel air hitting my hand.

For me I think it's because if I relax too much and open up as the air is pushed out then it's like the part of the palate which blocks your nose up relaxes too therefore letting the air escape.

I can't recreate it when either buzzing my lips or just on the mouthpiece so unless it starts happening all of the time I'm not going to overly stress about it.

Ross

In 1977, after years of dealing with this problem and advice from everyone from Arnold Jacobs to Ed Kleinhammer, Dave Hickman (who taught at trumpet Illinois at that point) suggested I see a doctor who had just presented at an ITG conference.

Much of the population lives an entire lifetime with this problem with no ill effects, but as brass players we are plagued by it.

After several diagnostics, Dr. David Dibbell at the U of Wisconsin Med Center (who pioneered this with brass and woodwind players) found that I was leaking nearly 50% of my air at times.  I was diagnosed with a condition called "velopharangeal incompetence" which means the soft palate is not sealing when air is expelled under pressure.

I was the second person in the world to undergo surgery to prevent the problem (which is the same procedure as used in cleft palate surgery).

Forty years later and the problem has never recurred.

Dr. David Dibbell
http://www.surgery.wisc.edu/profile/david-dibbell

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/504488

NIH Article

Wow, I didn't know this was a thing.  Hope I don't get it, now that I know.

I wonder if this is related to swimming.  When I took swimming lessons (couldn't graduate without passing the swim test) in college, I got water up my nose, and then I didn't.  I learned not to, but not how I did it. 

my professor has that same thing... just play loud enough so no one hears it haha

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Apr 12, 2017, 06:58AMMy only suggestion, which I think has worked for students with that problem, is to make it voluntary so you learn to have control over it.


I can do this. I'm not sure how I do it, though. I'm just aware of the air escaping, and stop it. I sort of raise my throat, or pull it back. There is no visible movement externally, and I'm not constricting any airflow through my throat.

Quote from: BillO on Apr 12, 2017, 07:01AMIf you have absolutely no control over it, it could a be a sign of palatal perforation.  It might not be a bad idea to have a doctor take a peek.
Palatal perforation?

Quote from: echasano on Apr 13, 2017, 07:48AMhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/504488

NIH Article

Re: palatal perforation

Very unlikely unless there's a lot of Charlie gone up your nose.

Chronic sinusitis is a possibility, but it's a common problem and perforation is a very rare complication, and more likely to affect the hard palate.

A small congenital perforation, failure of the palate to fuse in the midline is a (again, very uncommon) possibility.

Most likely is that because you've never had to occlude your nasopharynx, you don't know how. I've been trying to remember how I learnt to. But trying to explain it is like trying to explain whistling or raising eyebrows independently.

Re: palatal perforation

Very unlikely unless there's a lot of Charlie gone up your nose.

Chronic sinusitis is a possibility, but it's a common problem and perforation is a very rare complication, and more likely to affect the hard palate.

A small congenital perforation, failure of the palate to fuse in the midline is a (again, very uncommon) possibility.

Most likely is that because you've never had to occlude your nasopharynx, you don't know how. I've been trying to remember how I learnt to. But trying to explain it is like trying to explain whistling or raising eyebrows independently.