Vibrato

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imsevimse
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Vibrato

Post by imsevimse » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:14 pm

New insight!

Air vibrato?

I want to share a new discovery. I went through a couple of old schools. There are several in my drawers. I found a book by Alfred Jacobs for tenor- alto- and bass trombone. A lot of studies to play, and there suddenly near the end a couple of pages about air legato. I've heard about it but have never tried it and never got it explained to me. In the book it is explained as a series of fast crescendos and diminuendos to create a pulse. The result as I see it is similar to a lip vibrato.

The strange thing is it worked right away for me to do that and it is terrific. The sound is open during the whole note and the intonation remains the same. And the lips remains the same. This type of vibrato is something that I have completely missed, it definitely sounds more symphonic to me.

Lip vibrato, slide vibrato, and now another tool in the box; air vibrato.

Anyone use that a lot?

/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Doubler
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Doubler » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:27 pm

You're describing tremolo, a pulse in intensity, not pitch. In vibrato, the pitch changes slightly.
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imsevimse
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Re: Vibrato

Post by imsevimse » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:06 pm

In that book it is the description of what is labelled "vibrato" and it makes sense to me because it sounds a lot like a vibrato. A tremolo is in my book a fast repeated note like a roll on a timpani or the effect you can make on a piano on long chords that has two vertical lines under.. That is what I have been taught to be a tremolo. Such a tremolo sounds a lot like a thrill. But a thrill is up or down to the next note and not repeated notes in a piano chord. Maybe a thrill, a tremolo and a vibrato are ornaments that are interchangable and to some sense they float in to each other and the borders can be a bit muddy? As a singer a tremolo in old music can be done on the same note like a-ha-ha-ha-ha. That is sort of the same that is described in this book and labelled as "vibrato". It means that what is described as a "vibrato" for trombone may be a tremolo if you are a singer, or the two things have the same origin? Anyhow the effect can be used in place of a vibrato and has the same effect. Im going to start to use this and see what people think

Anyone done it?

/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BGuttman
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Re: Vibrato

Post by BGuttman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm

Other instruments use a vibrato like this. I believe it was also called "breath vibrato" and it's the only way you can get a vibrato effect on something like an oboe. Single reed instruments can get a vibrato by jaw movement on the reed as well as this technique.

I've tried it, but found I prefer the sound of a good slide vibrato (which imitates perfectly the effect of moving the hands on the fingerboard of a violin).
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AndrewMeronek
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Re: Vibrato

Post by AndrewMeronek » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:28 pm

I don't like air vibrato on a trombone. And technically, it should not result in any pitch change if your embouchure is stable - but if it isn't, air vibrato could, I suppose. It goes against the grain of typical trombone pedagogy, in the sense that air is usually made as stable as possible because then everything else is easier.
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Doubler
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Doubler » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:19 pm

IMO "breath vibrato" is a misnomer, an incorrect term for what is actually a tremolo. It doesn't matter whether it's used instrumentally or vocally, it's still a tremolo. The technique is to pulse one's diaphragm and/or throat to get the effect. It works best when you want to add the emotion of tenderness to a passage. No one does this better than Johnny Mathis.

A vibrato adds emotional intensity and strength. You can use jaw movement to create a lip vibrato or use the slide technique, which involves no distortion to your embouchure and is less tiring. Among other things, Frank Sinatra did this better than anyone else except Ella Fitzgerald, who was his equal at it (not on trombone, of course!)

As for a lip trill, which is a rapid slur between close partials, you would use this to add excitement, energy, intensity, and power to a passage. For Classical examples of lip trills, find some good J. S. Bach brass concertos. And for a contemporary example, James Morrison does nice smooth lip trills and vibrato, among other things, here:

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Doug Elliott
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Doug Elliott » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Here is an example of a fantastic player Robert Isele who used that kind of vibrato (or tremolo or whatever you want to call it).

There's only one problem - when you train yourself to do that, it's hard to stop. After his Marine Band career Isele was 2nd trombone in the National Symphony. He played with that vibrato all the time and couldn't play with a straight tone.
Posaunus
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Posaunus » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:42 pm

Doubler wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:19 pm
James Morrison does nice smooth lip trills and vibrato, among other things, here:

You realize, don't you, that posting this is really unfair to those of us who work so hard to make even one instrument sound good (much less play creatively)! :weep:

Morrison is a freak. And I love what he does! :good:
Doubler
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Doubler » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:04 pm

James Morrison is a great example of what can be achieved with practice, passion, practice, determination, practice, talent, practice, attitude, and practice.
Current instruments:
Olds Studio trombone, 3 trumpets, 1 flugelhorn, 1 cornet, 1 shofar, 1 keyboard

Previous trombones:
Selmer Bundy, Marceau
harrisonreed
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Re: Vibrato

Post by harrisonreed » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:19 pm

Nope! Air vibrato is no bueno to my ears
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Burgerbob
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Burgerbob » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:04 am

I don't see a need for it on a brass instrument with two other stellar options for vibrato.
Basbasun
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Basbasun » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:14 am

In many books the air vibrato is mentioned as one of the three methods to use vibrato, usually it is not recomended. I did hear some air vibrato in the 50th and early 60th.
It was used on the Swedish valvetrombone (tenorbasun) and "baryton" (baritone horn or euphonium) that was never played without vibrato in that music.
Tremolo is mostly used on stringinstruments and is series of fast attacks, the bow is rapidly going back and forth, the closest effect on brass instruments is what Richard Strauss wanted in Don Qioxote when the brass is sounding like sheep, flatterzunge. It can be done with a modified K-tounge to sound like fast attacks, years ago I was told that that was the effect R Strauss wanted.

I tried the breath vibrato years ago, I found it difficult to keep my airflow with it.


Yes there is some spellingproblems above, I know.
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greenbean
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Re: Vibrato

Post by greenbean » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:27 am

Flute players use air vibrato exclusively. (They call it "vibrato.") Sounds great on a flute! On trombone, not so much...
Kbiggs
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Re: Vibrato

Post by Kbiggs » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:56 am

Slightly off topic... Historically, it’s a third way to color a note, along with lip and slide vibrato.

If I remember my music performance practice correctly, this kind of “vibrato” was actually a different ornament in the Renaissance and early Baroque—it wasn’t considered vibrato. In Italian, it was called a trillo. I don’t remember what it was called in other languages.

Edward Tarr wrote about it in an early HBSJ article, I believe. Tarr described it as a gentle, consistent “huffing” on a note to give a pulsating quality, rather than a wavering of the pitch. (Tom, you describe it well.) You can hear it in some early music performances, esp. by Concerto Palatino, along with some of Bruce Dickey’s solo cornetto recordings. There’s also a recording from about 30 years ago by Tarr and twenty (20!) natural trumpet players (including Ingmar Roos, for those of you who know some of your Scandinavian trombonists) where they use trillo extensively. I’ll have to dig through my albums to find it...
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