TromboneChat

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:23 am**

Hi all,

For reasons of geography and family, it will be many years before I can afford the time to "try before I buy", so if I want a bass 'bone I will have to use the internet!

Here are my parameters:
-new
-independent valves
-reasonably likely to ship to Ireland in <6 weeks

Now, I have some models in mind, but rather than make a poll and bias your responses, I thought I'd let you have free reign!

So... What would you choose, and why?

Thanks a million!
Neil

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:00 pm**

Without trying, it's difficult to be very firm about the choice. And it may significantly depend on price. For a low end on price, I might go with one of the Wessex models. If not low end and not high-end/boutique, I'd probably go for one of the Getzen 1052 models. I'd be confident that the Wessex would be "good", and certainly "good enough", particularly for the price. And shipping to Ireland would not be a problem!! From technical comparisons, reviews, comments, and hearing a couple played, I'd have confidence that the Getzen would be a comfortable and good horn for me. But I have no idea about the shipping issues.

If you're going out of that price range, then I think there's a whole different set of answers.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:09 pm**

Since you can't try it, you're best off with a "Goldilocks" horn (not "too" anything) from a brand known for consistent quality...

Shires Q Series
Yamaha YBL-820
Rath R900

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:12 pm**

I second the Shires Q.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:31 pm**

If you've settled on a Yamaha you are probably fine with another from the factory. Yamaha are very consistent. If you like one then if you order one just like that one there is a high possibility you will ger another one exactly like that one.

/Tom

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:42 pm**

Shires Q. Not even a close call for me! (Assuming that its within budget)

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:49 pm**

I have never played one, but would also consider a shires q. Especially considering you can then still tweak it with used shires parts. They come up pretty odten and you dont have to quit your house.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:50 pm**

Either some flavour of Yamaha or a Rath R900/JPRath333 depending on budget

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:08 pm**

Shires Q.

I have played a good 10 or so Yamaha 830s, and they have all been totally different. I would not order one sight unseen. At least 2 of them were not good horns.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm**

A bad purchase has haunted me for years until I could find a way to unload it.

Personally, I would take the 6 kids and 2 grandparents and the dog on a trip to (insert achievable big city or neck of the woods, wherever there are sufficient horns to try). Play sick one day when they go to the (insert museum, theme park, or brewery, whatever attraction) and sneak off to put my face on some horns at the local salon de trombone. The family might figure it out when I returned home with one extra bag, but I won't hear them. I'll be daydreaming of the dulcet tones and crushing lows of my new axe.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:50 pm**

You do not mention what you want to spend or the level at which you play..... this is important for sensible answer.

Chris

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm**

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:08 pm Shires Q.

I have played a good 10 or so Yamaha 830s, and they have all been totally different. I would not order one sight unseen. At least 2 of them were not good horns.

I've had the same experience with the Yamaha 830. A couple I've tried I would have been happy to play anywhere, a couple others I couldn't wait to hand back and never play again. Other Yamaha models (like the 822) seem to be very consistent, but not the 830.

Shires Q is a good choice. If you have the money for a full custom Shires, I have had two students recently visit the factory, try a lot of different things, and then buy the following combination: B62YC (yellow crook) slide, rotary valves, yellow C tuning slide, BII 7YM bell. 6 weeks might be tough, but I don't think you can go wrong with that set-up. If you know you love axial (Thayer) valves, get the same combination with axials. If you've tried TruBores and love them, go for that.

I also like the Getzen 1052 with the yellow bell.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:42 pm**

The Eastman ETB-848 is also a phenomenal instrument. I haven't played a Shires Q but I played an ETB-848 once without realizing what it was and thought it was a Shires. Of course I played a real Shires shortly thereafter and it was a cut above, but for a first impression to be that good it's a seriously good instrument.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:31 pm**

Finetales wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:42 pm The Eastman ETB-848 is also a phenomenal instrument. I haven't played a Shires Q but I played an ETB-848 once without realizing what it was and thought it was a Shires. Of course I played a real Shires shortly thereafter and it was a cut above, but for a first impression to be that good it's a seriously good instrument.

Agreed! Forgot about this horn.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:59 am**

FeelMyRath wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:50 pm Either some flavour of Yamaha or a Rath R900/JPRath333 depending on budget

Yeah, had been leaning towards these + the new Wessex PBF 565 (but latter seems sold out already?!), but rather than making a poll wanted to see if there were other makes out there I hadn't heard of! Have you tried either the R900 or JP333? If you've tried both, how do they compare?

blast wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:50 pm You do not mention what you want to spend or the level at which you play..... this is important for sensible answer.

Chris

Good point! Let's say €3000 all in i.e. including shipping. And I consider myself at the top end of "weekend warriors"... I got to grade 8 tenor bone at the end of high school in 2001, but have always been better down low. Whenever I get to borrow a bass I'm told I get a good rasp out of it - i presume that's a compliment!

Thanks all for the suggestions, bTW - I hadn't considered Eastman's, Q's or Getzens at all (Yamaha is probably out of my price range for now, but good to know about consistency issues). HOWEVER... I'm having trouble finding European dealers thay will ship these instruments to Ireland - can someone please point one out to me?

Cheers!

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:32 am**

NuhJuhKuh wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:59 am
FeelMyRath wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:50 pm Either some flavour of Yamaha or a Rath R900/JPRath333 depending on budget
Yeah, had been leaning towards these + the new Wessex PBF 565 (but latter seems sold out already?!), but rather than making a poll wanted to see if there were other makes out there I hadn't heard of! Have you tried either the R900 or JP333? If you've tried both, how do they compare?

blast wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:50 pm You do not mention what you want to spend or the level at which you play..... this is important for sensible answer.

Chris
Good point! Let's say €3000 all in i.e. including shipping. And I consider myself at the top end of "weekend warriors"... I got to grade 8 tenor bone at the end of high school in 2001, but have always been better down low. Whenever I get to borrow a bass I'm told I get a good rasp out of it - i presume that's a compliment!

Thanks all for the suggestions, bTW - I hadn't considered Eastman's, Q's or Getzens at all (Yamaha is probably out of my price range for now, but good to know about consistency issues). HOWEVER... I'm having trouble finding European dealers thay will ship these instruments to Ireland - can someone please point one out to me?

Cheers!

Since I designed the new Wessex, I would have to say that as long as the production instruments are as good as the prototypes, it is a great horn and staggeringly good value. Plays as well as many top level horns.
That amount of money would give you access to some top level used instruments.... worth considering.
An ex-student of mine may be selling a Thayer-type valved XO that I know is a very good instrument.... PM me if interested.
The Rath R900 should be readily available and is good value.... not quite an R9, ( which is my daily driver) but a lot cheaper.

Chris

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:55 am**

NuhJuhKuh wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:59 am Thanks all for the suggestions, bTW - I hadn't considered Eastman's, Q's or Getzens at all (Yamaha is probably out of my price range for now, but good to know about consistency issues). HOWEVER... I'm having trouble finding European dealers thay will ship these instruments to Ireland - can someone please point one out to me?

Wessex and JP are both in England. Surely they ship to Ireland, or you could go over and get the horn? Other issues aside, this might make one of these instruments more attractive.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:11 am**

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:55 am Wessex and JP are both in England. Surely they ship to Ireland, or you could go over and get the horn? Other issues aside, this might make one of these instruments more attractive.

Sorry I wasn't clear! Wessex, JP and indeed rath (via Thoman) all ship to Ireland - it was the Shires, Getzen and Eastman I can't find dealers for outside of North America

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:51 am**

Mail order...as in new? It depends.

My last two trombones were purchased from folks I knew from the Forum (TTF). While I had not played them, I trusted the people selling them. The trombones were remarkably different in playing characteristics, were good instruments, and I would do so again. Buying from an unknown source, no matter the make/model is more problematic. A company like Wessex I'd have no problem...a random seller off eBay? That's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

My disadvantage is that, unless the horn is patently defective, I need to play an instrument over a period of time to determine if I want to keep it...maybe that's why I've only owned 5 bass trombones in 50 years of playing. I've also had the same problem with classical guitars, but I won't further get into that here.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:06 pm**

blast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:32 am Since I designed the new Wessex, I would have to say that as long as the production instruments are as good as the prototypes, it is a great horn and staggeringly good value. Plays as well as many top level horns.
That amount of money would give you access to some top level used instruments.... worth considering.
An ex-student of mine may be selling a Thayer-type valved XO that I know is a very good instrument.... PM me if interested.
The Rath R900 should be readily available and is good value.... not quite an R9, ( which is my daily driver) but a lot cheaper.

Chris

I've been looking at the Wessex ever since I heard you were designing it! Unfortunately (depending on your point of view) it came on sale just as we were buying a house, and now it's out of stock! Out of interest, does it have a removable leadpipe? Website doesn't say, but I was sure you said something about it on the other site...

Regarding the other matter - I've never played Axials! They seem specialised enough that I'd be nervous buying an axial horn blind, whereas I know where I'm at with rotors. Thanks though!

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:30 pm**

The Wessex does have a removable lead pipe. It's a nice pipe too !!

Chris

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:49 pm**

blast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:30 pm The Wessex does have a removable lead pipe. It's a nice pipe too !!

Chris

Based on anything in particular?

Actually, while I have you on the line... Is the mouthpiece unique as well? I know you habe a large collection to choose from!

Neil

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:32 pm**

Well,the joke is that I spent ages choosing the most suitable pipe from my collection, but when the second prototype came back, it had a new two-piece pipe that was a distinct improvement.... and I knew at that point that the project was in good hands !

The mouthpieces were not part of the project, so I have no idea what it comes with. I have been helping someone in London who fancies making some Mt Vernon based mouthpieces.... been playing a prototype since January.

Chris

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:05 am**

Chris, how does the prototype works? Will they be mass produced?
Leif

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:05 am**

Leif.... I take it that you are asking about the mouthpiece....
I have no idea what Bill will do with his project. He is interested in using unusual metals... Zirconium for example.He had one of my MV 1 1/2G CNC copied. The rim was not right on the first one. I fixed it by hand and sent it back and they managed to reproduce that one. I have that prototype and one of the copies. Easy to play with a warm sound. They feel a tiny bit bigger across the rim but are real 1 1/2G size mouthpieces. I am sure that Bill will tell the forum if he starts to produce them.

Chris

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:40 am**

Leif,

I´m conscious that this is a big thread hijack and in the wrong forum too, so maybe we´d better PM on this or start another thread. Anyway, "mass" producing is too strong a word for it, but I have orders for this mouthpiece in Zirconium that I´m trying to deal with. Brass may be available too.

As to the original poster´s question - for this neck of the woods Rath R900 is very good, and we can be sure that Chris´Wessex design must be good.

Bill

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:35 am**

I bought my Getzen 3062AF site unseen from mail order, no issues whatsoever.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:06 pm**

I would recommend these (that I have played):

Getzen 1052
Rath R900
Getzen 3062 (if you are into that sort of thing)

And these (that I have not played):

Shires Q
Eastman

(Actually, my top recommendation would be to buy used.)

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:51 am**

The XO bass trombone from Jupiter, (4 variations ), or either of the Wessex bass trombones.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:32 pm**

I bought my 822G and 891Z sight unseen based on recommendations and Yamaha’s reputation for consistency. I haven’t regretted it once.

Posted: **Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:30 am**

Also, although it's not free, some places like Thomann will accept mail-order returns. If you have the cashflow, you could order a couple at the same time and compare.

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:05 am**

Isn't it so that most companies today allows you to send it back and they send another example back to try if you don't like it? Most of them seems to be flexible to make the customer happy? I'm not sure but I believe so.
Leif

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:24 am**

What were the reviews of the Blast-designed Wessex bass trombone? Yay or nay?

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:36 am**

They don't seem to be being made in large numbers at the moment. Jonathan told me that Charlie Vernon tried it and thought it was a good instrument, but wouldn't be changing from his regular horn. No surprise there.
Jonathan is primarily a tuba man and is very taken up with getting his new York CC copies out there for players to try at the moment.
I have yet to see a production model myself.

Chris

Posted: **Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:36 am**

Probably not anywhere near the profit margin in that trombone than there is in the tubas (for several reasons). So I would see low production figures and lack of trials and reviews as reflective of that more than anything else.

TromboneChat

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