How Can He Do This?

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Leisesturm
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How Can He Do This?

Post by Leisesturm » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:25 pm

I've just discovered this piece. It is scored for Bass Trombone. It goes down to a written Bb below the Bass Clef. It goes up to a D above Middle C. Doug Yeo plays it on a dual rotor bass of course but this chap is using a single rotor Tenor? How is that accomplished?

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LeTromboniste
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by LeTromboniste » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:38 pm

Well, a few things here. It's not scored for Bass trombone, merely for "Trombone". The range is also a bit wider than you have written, it actually goes up to G above middle C. All the notes are playable on a single rotor Bb/F instrument, and that is what it was written for. The second rotor on bass trombones is a 20th century thing, they didn't have them in the 1860's when Liszt wrote this piece.
Maximilien Brisson
harrisonreed
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:40 pm

It was also recorded by Lindberg on tenor. The piece is completely playable on a tenor with F attachment.
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LeTromboniste
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by LeTromboniste » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:59 pm

harrisonreed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:40 pm
It was also recorded by Lindberg on tenor. The piece is completely playable on a tenor with F attachment.
Yes true, also Alain Trudel and I'm sure others as well.
Maximilien Brisson
Posaunus
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by Posaunus » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:15 pm

The trombone and organ parts are available on the Petrucci Music Library site:
https://imslp.org/

Make a contribution and download it for yourself.

And don't be afraid of the long reach to the low C! :horror:
Leisesturm
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by Leisesturm » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:27 pm

Posaunus wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:15 pm
The trombone and organ parts are available on the Petrucci Music Library site:
https://imslp.org/

Make a contribution and download it for yourself.

And don't be afraid of the long reach to the low C! :horror:
I wondered about IMSLP. I did some looking around yesterday when I first heard the piece. It retails anywhere from $17 to $20 USD from various sources. I did see a .pdf of the first page of the complete score and the entire trombone part on one site. I haven't been playing Trombone for very long, but aside from sheer endurance being lacking, I could probably play the piece right now. I only have the straight tenor though. Should I assume that the very low notes below C are being played as pedal harmonics of notes that are in the range of the slide and F attachment? I don't have much problem with reach. Second space C on my tenor is a note I play very frequently and in the average quarter notes tempo of the chorale that was played at the beginning of that piece I could go from 6th or 7th position straight to 1st and back without much difficulty. I've not tried to pull the slide off completely in playing position, but I think I could. I noticed the performer using the rim of the bell as a reference for 3rd position a few times. A beginners instruction video I saw on YouTube when I was starting out said never, ever, ever do that. As habits go, where does this one fall in the grand scheme of things? I doubt that guy really needs to refer to anything to check his intonation! Probably a left over (bad?) habit from his formative years.
harrisonreed
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Imslp has reprints/edits of the original piece. The one published by Schott is copyright and contains the Hymn that inspired the piece as an intro. The hymn is probably also public domain, but good luck finding it.
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BGuttman
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by BGuttman » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:40 pm

Leisesturm wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:27 pm
...I noticed the performer using the rim of the bell as a reference for 3rd position a few times. A beginners instruction video I saw on YouTube when I was starting out said never, ever, ever do that. As habits go, where does this one fall in the grand scheme of things? I doubt that guy really needs to refer to anything to check his intonation! Probably a left over (bad?) habit from his formative years.
Part of the reason we don't (or shouldn't) use the bell as a reference to 3rd position is because 3rd position is rarely exactly at the bell.

You may notice that he's using a finger to gauge a particular distance from the bell for 3rd. He knows his instrument well enough to know where 3rd is relative to his bell. When you know that distance you can try using the bell for reference. But remember that a note in 3rd position may need to be adjusted depending on where in the chord you are. Also, 3rd position is in slightly different places depending on which partial you are playing.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
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LeTromboniste
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by LeTromboniste » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:27 pm

Leisesturm wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:27 pm
I only have the straight tenor though. Should I assume that the very low notes below C are being played as pedal harmonics of notes that are in the range of the slide and F attachment? I don't have much problem with reach. Second space C on my tenor is a note I play very frequently and in the average quarter notes tempo of the chorale that was played at the beginning of that piece I could go from 6th or 7th position straight to 1st and back without much difficulty.
Not sure what you mean, but you need an F attachment, won't work on straight tenor. Low C, D, Eb can only be played with the F attachment (they are not "pedal harmonics" though, they are the second partial or mode of their respective fundamentals another octave below). The low Bb is indeed a pedal note, being the fundamental of the instrument.
Maximilien Brisson
harrisonreed
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Re: How Can He Do This?

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:45 pm

Leisesturm wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:27 pm
Posaunus wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:15 pm
The trombone and organ parts are available on the Petrucci Music Library site:
https://imslp.org/

Make a contribution and download it for yourself.

And don't be afraid of the long reach to the low C! :horror:
I noticed the performer using the rim of the bell as a reference for 3rd position a few times. A beginners instruction video I saw on YouTube when I was starting out said never, ever, ever do that. As habits go, where does this one fall in the grand scheme of things? I doubt that guy really needs to refer to anything to check his intonation! Probably a left over (bad?) habit from his formative years.
Referencing the bell for Ab and the notes around it is perfectly fine to do. If a manufacturer gives you a true third position, why wouldn't you tune that way? But make sure you know where tuning to the bell actually puts your Bb (hint, not with the slide all the way closed).

Did you hear how good that guy sounded? Who cares if he touched the bell? Certain famous conducting composing trombone soloists have given students crap about it in masterclasses even though they they themselves touched the bell for reference like crazy in their own performances.
LeTromboniste wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:59 pm
harrisonreed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:40 pm
It was also recorded by Lindberg on tenor. The piece is completely playable on a tenor with F attachment.
Yes true, also Alain Trudel and I'm sure others as well.
FWIW, Alain's recording was on a Yamaha Bass. It's a great recording, I think!
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