Mating bells and slides of different brands

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novalvz
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Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by novalvz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:49 pm

I am curious about the feasibility/compatibility of mating the bell section of one brand to the slide section of a different brand, using the tenon and screw connector of either.

I am referring to small bore pro tenors (.491 to .508) like 2B, 3B, 6H, 891, etc.

Have any of you done this type of mod? Are there inherent problems with such a hybrid?

Are there obvious tuning issues?

Any insight would be appreciated!
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Matt K
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by Matt K » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:26 pm

Obviously you have to have an equal or shorter length handslide. Otherwise it's too flat and you can't do anything about it!

It's a lot easier to swap the tenon out but sometimes you'll have to replace the whole cork barrel. It's easier to buy a cork barrel of a larger bore (eg a 508 cork barrel for a 500 inner) than it is the other way around. Sometimes it just isn't possible because of the I'd of the cork barrel. Some tenon's are soldered to the inner slide. More work, more $$.

If the bore is way different it can cause problems too. I had a 508/525 shires slide that had a small receiver on it. Played great on my Bach 9 bell. But it also played like 5 cents flat all the way in! Length was not too far off but just way too big for the smaller bell I suppose.

Between these things, it often isn't worth it because there are too many differences but some times its fine. Eg a 2b slide on a 3b bell after a tenon swap. Or a Yamaha slide on another Yamaha bell. Most of the small bore stuff I've tried is compatible and largely a good fit for other yanaha bells for example.
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BGuttman
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by BGuttman » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:11 pm

I can tell you a couple of combinations that DON'T work.

King trombones have the bell nut on the slide while Conn (and many others) have the bell nut on the bell section. Can't mix them.

I'm currently trying to find a slide to fit a Martin Indiana bell. It has the bell nut on the bell. A Cecilio slide doesn't fit (and bell nut is on the slide so they don't work together anyway).
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
Jgittleson
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by Jgittleson » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:40 am

I did this with my holton 181 a long time ago. I hated it with the original slide, and my shires slide was a perfect fit, just needed a different lock nut. Made all the differebce in the world, became my favorite setup.
Bach5G
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by Bach5G » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Yam and Bach?
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Matt K
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by Matt K » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:51 pm
Yam and Bach?
That will work for some of the basses. I don't think I've encountered a pairing that works on any of the tenors though I've not tried may of those combinations.
CalgaryTbone
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by CalgaryTbone » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:08 pm

As long as the bore is more or less comparable, you can put together a slide and bell that don't have similar connections by having a tech change either the connection on the bell or slide (or both). Doug Edelman(R) from the Met used to play a Bach slide on a Conn bell, but he had a couple of slides and bells all set up to have the proper connecting parts on them so he could swap parts for his uses.

Costs some money, and if you can't put them together well enough to try them before the "surgery", it could be a waste of time. This is the very thing that started the modular designs for Edwards/Shires, etc. Still, it could be worth it if you find something like a vintage bell that doesn't have a useable slide.

Hey, it's only money, and we're trombone players - it's not like any of us have money!

Jim Scott
baileyman
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by baileyman » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:57 pm

A selection of taper adapters would match most anything to most anything else. Then use it old school without a locking nut. You get a bump at the joint, but then Bach used that intentionally.
Savio
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by Savio » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:26 pm

I wonder if my old bach 50bl bell can fit on my Holton 180 slide?

Leif
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novalvz
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by novalvz » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:20 am

Thanks for the input.

I like the idea of taper adapters. Actually playing a combination will determine if there are intonation issues.

Are these adapters commercially available?
cozzagiorgi
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by cozzagiorgi » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:22 am

I play a nach bell sectipn with an edwards slide on bass and a bach bell with shires slide on tenor. Great combinations. I guess i dont like bach slides...

The Shires slidw had to be adapted somewhat
mrdeacon
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Re: Mating bells and slides of different brands

Post by mrdeacon » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:29 pm

Savio wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:26 pm
I wonder if my old bach 50bl bell can fit on my Holton 180 slide?

Leif
Leif, it'll friction fit but the Holton threads are different and the slide won't screw onto the Bach bell section.
Conn 8H 2010s, Elliott XT
Rath R1 2010s, Elliott XT
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott SB
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