An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

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tskeldon
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An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by tskeldon » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:55 am

Hi everyone,

I want to start some discussions that require a little bit of exposure to the physics of sound production for those of you who do not already have the background, in this case particularly as it pertains to mouthpiece selection. I will also be posting the same article in the instrument forum so that I can more easily undertake new considerations there with regards to instrument selection.

Ultimately, what I am looking for, is the degree to which your actual experience as a performer corroborates the science. Instead of writing it out myself, I am providing a link to someone else's sight, whose warrant of expertise is actually in the field (where I am only an avid amateur). My hope is that this non-mathematical explanation will bring not only insight, but that it will be received in the spirit of their authority and impartiality.

http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/brassac ... l#overview

Its consideration will not contend, challenge, or threaten the expertise of any of our friends who regularly contribute here to our great advantage. It presents another way to come at the problem that we have created ourselves regarding tone and volume. It offers none of the variability or flexibility that are hallmark of the dialing-in-the-tone paradigm, because its goal is only to dial-in-the-sound; the tone being what the tone is!

I will then promote a player lead revolt (not really): an individual return or adoption (based upon the science) to a the healthy, natural, sweet, exciting and red-blooded sound that was once part of all brass instrument performance (and is newly a part of winning auditions), and which is promoted primarily by far greater economy of effort, and a symbiotic interface within a section and ensemble of either orchestral or a jazz instrumentation.

I encourage as many of you as have a reason to invest in your playing future to look through this article(s), in advisement of your own equipment explorations, and possible participation in a the evolution of this forum topic. I know how busy everybody is, so I'll leave it to sit for a week or so after posting, before taking it up again. I think it might prove very interesting.

Tim
cozzagiorgi
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by cozzagiorgi » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:26 am

As we say in german : i understand railway station.
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sirisobhakya
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by sirisobhakya » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:29 pm

cozzagiorgi wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:26 am
As we say in german : i understand railway station.
Sie verstehen nur Bahnhof? Welche Bahnhof? Tiergarten oder Hauptbahnhof?

The joke aside, interesting article for those who knows physics, including me, although I am bad at waves and other wave-related topics. But to be honest it does not help much in selecting a mouthpiece. Perhaps some article about experiment in details on various mouthpiece parameters should help more. I have seen a research regarding FFT analysis of various trombone components and bells, and has a (quite) clear, if not too much technical, conclusion about what the various bells do to the sound.
Chaichan Wiriyaswat
Alumni & Instructor - Kasetsart University Laboratory School Symphonic Band, Bangkok Thailand
Oslide
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by Oslide » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:52 am

„I have seen a research regarding FFT analysis of various trombone components and bells, and has a (quite) clear, if not too much technical, conclusion about what the various bells do to the sound.“

It would be great if you could let us know the source of that research article. Thank you!
bellend
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by bellend » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:45 am

If your interested in these sort of things take at look here https://smithwatkins.com/library/technical-papers.html


Enjoy

BellEnd
tskeldon
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by tskeldon » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 pm

Hi everyone,

I’m sorry to be so ate getting back to this thread, but I have spent several enjoyable days reviewing everything here about mouthpieces. Thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts over the years. I am also happy to confirm that we already have an invaluable and sensible resource in Doug Elliot. The more posts I have read by him, the more I respect his patience, expertise, and balanced, sensible (rather than common sense) opinions.

I am currently still ‘crafting’ my first initial statement of intent for this sensitive topic, but think that you might all be profited by checking out what other progressive thinkers such as Jason Harrelson, of Harrelson Trumpets, https://www.whyharrelson.com/intro-to-mouthpieces.html Scott Hartman, of Hartman Mouthpieces, http://www.hartmanmouthpieces.net/tenor ... to-a-horn/ and Stomvi Art and Technology, https://stomvi.com/en/products/mouthpie ... ne/classic have to say about mouthpiece design. Much of it is similar in tangent to my own thinking, though my end goal is different.

In all three cases, the links posted just direct you to the general resource of the website. I encourage you to look around to see what it is that they have to say. Much of it is simply a more technical explanation of the things that Doug Elliot kindly defines by posting in courtesy of plain language. For my own part, I’m particularly interested in their work because they are all developing modular models (such as trumpet players already enjoy), which will allow me the liberty to prove my thinking on mouthpiece- instrument interface and the pursuit of the ‘realized’ sound, as opposed to a preferred or ‘determined’ sound. Much more later.

Tim
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greenbean
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by greenbean » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:57 pm

I find that less reading and more practicing is the best way to make progress.
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ghmerrill
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by ghmerrill » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:33 am

tskeldon wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 pm
For my own part, I’m particularly interested in their work because they are all developing modular models (such as trumpet players already enjoy), which will allow me the liberty to prove my thinking on mouthpiece- instrument interface and the pursuit of the ‘realized’ sound, as opposed to a preferred or ‘determined’ sound. Much more later.
That's great if your interest is in science potentially useful in designing and fabricating mouthpieces. But from my own perspective, if I were to put that much effort into something, it would probably be in getting a better grip on contemporary gravitational theory. With respect to mouthpieces, I don't want to design or make 'em -- just use 'em. So I'm siding with greenbean on this one.
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
Bach5G
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by Bach5G » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:06 pm

Long tones.
tskeldon
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by tskeldon » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Good-bye!

I have decided to take my leave of this forum by thanking its members for the consideration they have shown me during my short visit to the community. I came here looking for some answers and I got them! It was in my mind to leave something in return for the kindness you had shown, and I had undertaken to do so by way of forum contributions like this one, until I realized the conceit of it. Advised by that humility, my gift will be that I will not be completing the threads that I started, so as not to disturb the the good work done by those that have gone before. Enjoy!

Tim
harrisonreed
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Re: An Advised Persons Guide To The Science of Mouthpiece Selection

Post by harrisonreed » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:13 pm

Farewell, star traveler. Thou hast paved the way into the leviathan depths of arcane and sinister sciences. May Thuluth light and guide your way unto thine destined final going-place. We will never-ever-more forget Your Great Gifts!
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