Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

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mrdeacon
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Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:06 pm

Hi!

I recently picked up a Mr.Bass Brass Ark/Bob Reeves piece and it's fantastic!

I'm curious though about rim measurements...

Brass Ark states the cup diameter of the Mr.Bass is 27.1mm, Bach states their 1 1/2G is 27mm. The Mr.Bass feels and looks noticeably bigger.

I have a Bach Corp. 1 1/2G and I measured 26mmish. My Mr.Bass I measure at 27mmish. On both I used a tape measurer measuring the inside diameter of the cup.

Does Bach use a different way of measuring?

I don't have any other 1 1/2, 59 or 60 sized pieces to double check any of these measurements.
Last edited by mrdeacon on Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ghmerrill
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by ghmerrill » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:28 pm

Measurements of mouthpieces like that are not very precise or objective. Doug Elliott will probably fill in on the details. But there's just a lot of variation in curvatures of the cup and rim surfaces and edges so on two mouthpieces it almost doesn't make (precise) sense to say "I measured them both at the same point". Also, Bach seems over the years to have had pretty wild dimensional variance even among examples of the same model mouthpiece -- in particular the 1 1/2. The whole 1 1/2 or 1 1/4, etc. classification is just a rough ballpark kind of thing. You have to play it to tell ... er ... how it plays.
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blast
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by blast » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:35 pm

You need a proper micrometer. Next, you must realise that mouthpieces of all sizes vary A LOT. Small differences FEEL big to us as players. Even CNC made pieces vary. Different makers measure at different points on the rim leading to much confusion. You cannot trust printed specs. Simple eh ??

Chris
mrdeacon
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:47 pm

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that even though the specs are close the feel is way different.

I used to play on a 93D and I felt like I had a pretty good handle on the rim size. Then I tried 95D, which is only .5mm larger, and basically anything above G above the staff was unplayable because the rim felt so big.

The rim is also wider on the Mr.Bass... maybe that's what I'm feeling?
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Rusty
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by Rusty » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:55 pm

I find the Mr. Bass to be way bigger than other 1 1/2g I’ve tried....I think I saw once where it was referred to as more like an ‘oversized 1 1/2g’, which seems about right to me.

You’re right too, tiny differences in rim contour can make big differences in feel on the lips.
bimmerman
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by bimmerman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Think about how different a 5g vs a 6.5al rim feels-- that's a 0.1mm difference if you believe the published specs. Then factor rim contour into account and who really knows.
Bassbonechandler
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by Bassbonechandler » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:51 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:47 pm
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that even though the specs are close the feel is way different.

I used to play on a 93D and I felt like I had a pretty good handle on the rim size. Then I tried 95D, which is only .5mm larger, and basically anything above G above the staff was unplayable because the rim felt so big.

The rim is also wider on the Mr.Bass... maybe that's what I'm feeling?
That's really interesting, I was thinking about trying a 95d a while from now just to see what I think. Maybe not.
mrdeacon
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Don't let me disuade you from the 95D, it's an excellent mouthpiece! The cup and backbone are modest for the size and the mouthpiece is very nimble!

But the rim on that thing is basically a small tuba rim. Low and mid register is great but if you can't handle a big rim anything above the staff is a ton of work.

Personally I can't handle anything bigger then a Elliott 114.
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mrdeacon
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:03 pm

Thanks for all the responses! That was enlightening and a good reminder about how important the rim is in a mouthpiece. I'm not sure if the Mr.Bass is my final stop on the 1 1/2 journey but I'll try it out for a little while before I make up my mind!
Last edited by mrdeacon on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ngrinder
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by ngrinder » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:34 pm

The shape of the rim and the slope into the bowl also factor a lot into the "feel" of a mouthpiece.

Like others said too, mouthpiece manufacturing varies quite a bit, especially in the older Bach pieces. I just pulled out the calipers to check out some 6-3/4C mouthpieces I have earlier today, and there is a .3mm difference between two of the pieces that are purportedly supposed to be the same mouthpiece! I like to think of the labels on pieces as "variations on a theme."
Basbasun
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by Basbasun » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:27 am

Rusty wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:55 pm
I find the Mr. Bass to be way bigger than other 1 1/2g I’ve tried....I think I saw once where it was referred to as more like an ‘oversized 1 1/2g’, which seems about right to me.

You’re right too, tiny differences in rim contour can make big differences in feel on the lips.
George Roberts played an oversized 1 1/2G.
Bassbonechandler
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Re: Bach 1 1/2g cup diameter measurements

Post by Bassbonechandler » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:14 am

mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:01 pm
Don't let me disuade you from the 95D, it's an excellent mouthpiece! The cup and backbone are modest for the size and the mouthpiece is very nimble!

But the rim on that thing is basically a small tuba rim. Low and mid register is great but if you can't handle a big rim anything above the staff is a ton of work.

Personally I can't handle anything bigger then a Elliott 114.
I'll just try it sometime. Personally coming from the 1 1/2g size, I feel much more comfortable on a bigger rim size than I did on the 1 1/2ish size. But that's just me.
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