Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

cozzagiorgi
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Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:17 am

...if its price is more than market value?

Lets assume you come across the vintage horn of your dreams, good condition. What horn would it be? And what would you be ready to pay for it?

Brand, modell, year?

Me probably a Holton 169. As for the price... hard to say, they are that rare...
Posaunus
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Posaunus » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:27 am

My dream horn was an Elkhart Conn 79H - and I found it, in very good condition!
Paid more than I was prepared to - but I now have it - and love it! :good:
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Trav1s
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Trav1s » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:42 am

I have several that I have picked up since I got back into playing. First is the 1969 Conn 79h and the other is an odd one a 1972 Conn 80h. The 80h is a 78h with an 8” red brass bell.

Working on a conn 32h and hope to pick up a 6H in the future. I love the old Conn vibe.
1969 79H with Rotax conversion
1972 80H (78H with 8" red brass bell)
1974 77H Connquest project
1939 Conn 32H Burkle
Besson 8-10 x2
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by dukesboneman » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:48 pm

I`d love a Mount Vernon Bach 8 and a straight Mount Vernon 34G
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by JohnL » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:58 pm

cozzagiorgi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:17 am
Lets assume you come across the vintage horn of your dreams, good condition. What horn would it be? And what would you be ready to pay for it?
When I was building my collection, I found myself in that exact position a few times, particularly when dealing with early Olds bass trombones. I paid what was necessary to acquire the horn. I'm not sure if I would call that paying over the market value, though. Each of those instruments was not simply rare, but (to the best of my knowledge) unique. These days, my collection is pretty much complete, so it'll have to be something really special to get me to open up the old wallet.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by hyperbolica » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:21 pm

I think a Minnick 100h would loosen the purse strings a little.
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LeTromboniste
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by LeTromboniste » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:31 pm

This Romantic French trombone, which I only spotted a few days after it sold (for probably quite a bit above its actual value). If anyone knows the person who bought it........

Image

Image

Image

Image
Maximilien Brisson
Posaunus
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Posaunus » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:14 pm

LeTromboniste wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:31 pm
This Romantic French trombone ...
What a stunning instrument. I can see why you were interested!

Do you know anything about it? Year built/used; size of bore, bell, etc.; where/how it was used (orchestra, opera, chamber, ...)?
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by bimmerman » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:16 pm

I kinda did on two horns-- Sterling Plus LT16M, Mt Vernon 6vii/9.

Super glad I did!
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by imsevimse » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:58 pm

:shuffle: It is rare I find a horn I want and not already have...

/Tom
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LeTromboniste
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by LeTromboniste » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Posaunus wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:14 pm
LeTromboniste wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:31 pm
This Romantic French trombone ...
What a stunning instrument. I can see why you were interested!

Do you know anything about it? Year built/used; size of bore, bell, etc.; where/how it was used (orchestra, opera, chamber, ...)?
The bell is inscribed "E De Tarade", which lead me to think it was built for Émile De Tarade (1800-1880), a French military who at some point was bodyguard to Louix XVIII, but later remained employed without being assigned for up to 15 years, retiring in 1846 with what I imagine a decent pension for having done not much. All that free time and his early retirement seem to have allowed him to delve into diverse intellectual and artistic activities. He published a treatise on anatomy in 1841 and a book on how to raise and educate dogs in 1871, as well as the tales of an artist's travels (auto-biographical?), and two poetry compilations of his own writings (including some put to music by Fernando Sor). There's accounts of him composing orchestral music and being a conductor.

The fanciness of the instrument fits well with the persona of a rich intellectual jack-of-all-trades.

Year built; can only speculate, but given the features of the instrument (tuning slide, water key), I would say probably later in his life. 1870s, maybe 1860s. Bore and bell size seem to be the typical Romantic French style (i.e. very small, .450 ish bore and ~6½ bell). Think Conn 2H dimensions, but built lighter with thinner metal.
Maximilien Brisson
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by mrdeacon » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Either a killer Holton TR185 or a 169! I wouldn't say no to a good Elky 60H or 62H :pant:
Conn 88H 1980s, Elliott XT
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
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Matt K
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Matt K » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:59 pm

NY/Mt. Vernon 50 or 45B (model numbers obviously being fuzzy before a certain year) if I had the bread! There's a really nice 45B bell on Brassark that I'd buy if I didn't already have 100 projects I were working on at the moment...

Glassl Alto too!
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by fwbassbone » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:04 pm

Elkhart 60H.
billyball
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by billyball » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Mt. Vernon Bach 42b with gold bell and nickel slide

Pre-war Elkhart Conn 66H
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by fsgazda » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:27 pm

Conn Fuchs.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by lauriet » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:54 pm

I don't know if this is rare but I did buy a 1928 22h Conn. Probably paid over the mark since I had to pay shipping, and the exchange rate (Aus -> Us) was pretty crappy. Had to buy it "sight unseen" and trust the sellers description.
But it did work out, as it is in great condition, and I play it most........"the things it must have seen"
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:37 pm

fsgazda wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:27 pm
Conn Fuchs.
Let me know if you find one for sale :-)
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:38 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:26 pm
Either a killer Holton TR185 or a 169! I wouldn't say no to a good Elky 60H or 62H :pant:
You should have bought the 185 recently on ebay.
Or maybe I should have bought it... oh my..
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Bach5G » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 pm

I’ve had the good fortune of having at one time or another owned nearly all of my dream horns. In no particular order: conn 62H, Edwards and Shires basses; King 3B/F, Tennessee Williams 6, Burbank Williams 6, Minick “100H”, Elkhart 6H, 1963 Elkhart 88H, and Shires .525 and .547 tenors. I’m not particularly well off - I would usually have to sell one before buying the next. All but one were used. I recently acquired a De Bruycker bell/Bach 16M combination. I’d like to try a 169 some day. That’s about it.

Looking back, I suppose I’d like the 88H back. Generally, I’m glad I had the chance to experience all these great horns, but I don’t really need a collection.

The takeaway for me is that they were nearly all great horns but, for the most part, it’s not the horn. The exception was a 70s Corporation Bach 50. I received more compliments playing that horn than all the rest combined.
Last edited by Bach5G on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
cozzagiorgi
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 pm

The takeaway for me is that they were nearly all great horns but, for the most part, it’s not the horn. The exception was a 70s Corporation Bach 59. I received more compliments playing that horn than all the rest combined.
Bach 59? Whats that?
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by blast » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:54 am

I have been very lucky and own, or have owned, many of the most coveted horns. I suppose the Conn Fuchs is the jewel in the crown, bought for many dollars at a time when we were getting almost $2 to the pound. I expect it will be for sale one day.... not quite yet though. The other very special horn is a Bb basposaune made by Piering senior around 1850.... father of more famous Robert. I used that one on a recording with Ian Bousfield... plays really well.
I turned down the offer of a Williams 10. Not cheap, but a real stunner. If I had been 20 years younger I would have bought it, but I have quite enough.... I can pick up a Rath R9, Holton 169, Conn Fuchs or any of a room full of instruments.... I think the itch is well and truly scratched !!

Chris
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:16 am

blast wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:54 am
I have been very lucky and own, or have owned, many of the most coveted horns. I suppose the Conn Fuchs is the jewel in the crown, bought for many dollars at a time when we were getting almost $2 to the pound. I expect it will be for sale one day.... not quite yet though.
Hopefully when that happens the exchange rate swiss francs to british pound is more to my liking than now :-)
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by baileyman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:59 am

An old pro horn. Just pay the asking price and enjoy.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Bach5G » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:41 am

cozzagiorgi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 pm
Bach5G wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 pm

The takeaway for me is that they were nearly all great horns but, for the most part, it’s not the horn. The exception was a 70s Corporation Bach 59. I received more compliments playing that horn than all the rest combined.
Bach 59? Whats that?
Fixed. Bach 50.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by whitbey » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:18 am

bimmerman wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:16 pm
I kinda did on two horns-- Sterling Plus LT16M, Mt Vernon 6vii/9.

Super glad I did!
I am wondering about that sterling bell. I think I will start a sterling bell thread. Please join me.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by elmsandr » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:28 am

I've generally bit on most of these each time I have seen them. Just about the only dream horn left for me to snag is a Contra or a horn owned by somebody in particular.

Do not worry everybody, I intend to make sure my rare horns are restored and ready for when they move on to the next owners.

Now to get that Fuch's finished and see how it really plays,
Andy
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by sf105 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:28 am

I'm curious about Noah's modern Fuchs project. Can't imagine what it cost.

I once lost a 'bay auction for a Holton 169 that went well over the asking. Got to try it out and it was fantastic.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by heinzgries » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:54 am

LeTromboniste wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:31 pm
This Romantic French trombone, which I only spotted a few days after it sold (for probably quite a bit above its actual value). If anyone knows the person who bought it........
it looks a bit like my Hawkes from 1905 which is still playable.
blast
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by blast » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:04 am

sf105 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:28 am
I'm curious about Noah's modern Fuchs project. Can't imagine what it cost.

I once lost a 'bay auction for a Holton 169 that went well over the asking. Got to try it out and it was fantastic.
Copies..... I am, as you know Steve, playing on the Bill Symington copy of my Mt Vernon 1 1/2G.... you have tried one yourself... a great mouthpiece, but nothing like the MV Bach...a happy accident therefore..... even more can go wrong with trombones... the Bach 50 was a copy of a Fuchs... as was the Conn 60H and 62H.... and the Holton 169.... all different, as you, fellow Fuchs owner knows.

169s are a bit special though... and if there is a Ray Premru connection, even better 8-)

Chris
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by DaveAshley » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:57 am

I would probably pony up a little extra for a truly outstanding Conn 6H or maybe even a Bach 12. It would REALLY have to be special, though.
sf105
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by sf105 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am

blast wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:04 am
sf105 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:28 am
I'm curious about Noah's modern Fuchs project. Can't imagine what it cost.

I once lost a 'bay auction for a Holton 169 that went well over the asking. Got to try it out and it was fantastic.
Copies..... I am, as you know Steve, playing on the Bill Symington copy of my Mt Vernon 1 1/2G.... you have tried one yourself... a great mouthpiece, but nothing like the MV Bach...a happy accident therefore..... even more can go wrong with trombones... the Bach 50 was a copy of a Fuchs... as was the Conn 60H and 62H.... and the Holton 169.... all different, as you, fellow Fuchs owner knows.

169s are a bit special though... and if there is a Ray Premru connection, even better 8-)

Chris
As we said at the time, Noah's project was informed by the Fuchs, it won't be the same. I'm still hugely curious. Same for the TIS Greenhoes.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by mrdeacon » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:06 pm

sf105, I think the cool thing with Noah's project is that the horn will have a lot of unique specs to it. The bell flare will be unique to anything currently on the market, the horn is all rose and yellow brass, and it has that super cool TIS mechanism. I'm definitely curious!

I'll never be able to afford it but that doesn't mean I'm not curious :pant:
Conn 88H 1980s, Elliott XT
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Chiptingle » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:36 pm

dukesboneman wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:48 pm
I`d love a Mount Vernon Bach 8 and a straight Mount Vernon 34G
I have a MV 8 I’d sell you for $2k.

Here are pics:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gqqVS ... 5fROkpd41W

Please give a shout.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:38 pm

Hm there is a mv bach 42 on Facebook for 5000$
Also a nice horn.
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LeoInFL
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by LeoInFL » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:20 am

Would've loved to have bought a Williams & Wallace Bass (TIS, single-trigger with the manual 2nd valve) just about 11 months ago. When the bidding went north of $2,300 I had to give up. :(
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by RJMason » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:33 pm

I paid a few hundred more than eBay prices for my 6H. But it was formerly owned by Wayne Andre and easily one of the best sounding trombones I’ve ever played. I never really played Conn until I picked that horn up at the shop and played it for an hour. Purchased immediately. I would probably pony up for a Minick small bore if another one comes up (just missed the last one at BrassArk), a Peppy made small bore Bach that played exceptionally well, Or maybe if Drew put the Billy Byer’s Williams 4 up for sale ;D
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Vegastokc » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:11 pm

There's an interesting Conn 30H on craigslist right now. (Not overpriced)
Also, would not mind finding one of the Naked Lady engraved horns.
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dershem
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by dershem » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:56 pm

Vintage horns? The horn I started on was ancient - a sterling silver Henry Distin, which by the time I got it in ;76 was pretty worn out... but it played very sweetly. One of those in mint condition would tempt me.
Rare horns? A double-trombone like Schagerl made for Morrison. :)
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Elkhart88H » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:05 am

I'd pay top dollar for a super-clean Conn 88H from 1966 or earlier. I love my 1970 88H, but I've heard that some of the earlier ones can be even better. I'd also be sorely tempted if I ran across a 79H from the same era.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by SlidemanSailor » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:46 pm

I run a bit in the budget community, but have gambled small on potentially good horns. It has actually worked well for me. I win some and lose some, but in the aggregate have picked up a couple good ones for low bucks because I took the chances and was able to rectify their shortcomings.
Intermediate 3rd trombone, garage band lead always looking for people to play with in the lower-left-corner Montana wilderness.
mostly: 2006 Conn 88HCL 525/547 bore, rose bell
occasionally: 1958 Conn 6H
once in a while: 1976 Yamaha YSL 354
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Pranayama
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Pranayama » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:48 am

Conn 62H Elkhart in nice condition if one ever shows up again.

Conn 70H Fuchs model ... they all differ from each other so another one wouldn't be redundant.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Trav1s » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:14 pm

Trav1s wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:42 am
I have several that I have picked up since I got back into playing. First is the 1969 Conn 79h and the other is an odd one a 1972 Conn 80h. The 80h is a 78h with an 8” red brass bell.

Working on a conn 32h and hope to pick up a 6H in the future. I love the old Conn vibe.
32H arrived and I am loving it! Paired it with the DE LT102/LT-D/D4 mouthpiece picked for my 79H and it is an amazingly flexible horn. Easy & soaring upper range as well as great lower range. I am hooked!
1969 79H with Rotax conversion
1972 80H (78H with 8" red brass bell)
1974 77H Connquest project
1939 Conn 32H Burkle
Besson 8-10 x2
cozzagiorgi
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:26 pm

Trav1s wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:14 pm
Trav1s wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:42 am
I have several that I have picked up since I got back into playing. First is the 1969 Conn 79h and the other is an odd one a 1972 Conn 80h. The 80h is a 78h with an 8” red brass bell.

Working on a conn 32h and hope to pick up a 6H in the future. I love the old Conn vibe.
32H arrived and I am loving it! Paired it with the DE LT102/LT-D/D4 mouthpiece picked for my 79H and it is an amazingly flexible horn. Easy & soaring upper range as well as great lower range. I am hooked!
Nice! Have fun with a great horn!
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by sf105 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:24 am

Trav1s wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:14 pm
32H arrived and I am loving it! Paired it with the DE LT102/LT-D/D4 mouthpiece picked for my 79H and it is an amazingly flexible horn. Easy & soaring upper range as well as great lower range. I am hooked!
Good to hear. I use mine with Conn 2 & 3 mouthpieces (depending on the mood) and it really came to life.

S
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Tarkus697 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:03 am

Dunno if it counts as rare, but I found a 1966 Selmer Bolero in excellent condition on eBay and the music store happened to be just outside of Philly, so I drove over to play-test it. Went home, made them an offer $200 under what they were asking and they accepted.

I'd love to get an Elkhart Conn 79H because the ones I've played are just fun horns.
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BrassedOn
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by BrassedOn » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:20 am

For me, it always has to be a player, even if only for a particular niche.

But in this case, i dream of the horn used for a particular occasion. I'd like to play the horn that was used in the premier of the Mozart Requiem Tuba Mirum. The first excerpt I studied, and a piece which always holds a particular significance. Then I'd like to talk to the player to premiered it after Mozart's death, and find out what of any of Mozart's direction was conveyed for how to play this piece. BTW, on that aside see and the follow up article: https://thelasttrombone.com/2016/10/14/ ... uba-mirum/

So not as rare as many on the list, but earlier Conn 62H, tuning in the slide. I've played a handful, and they had that classic conn bass bone sound. Just a pleasure.

I know this is trombone chat, but I got play 3 notes on the Arnold Jacobs' Holton detachable bell tuba, based on the famous Chicago York from which all those 6/4 orchestra tubas like the nirshl are copied from. Jacobs used this horn on outdoor concerts, Ravinia. Now owned by one of his students. A big horn that really speaks. Some fragment of Jacobs DNA is still some pore of the brass. But, Thou shalt not covet. So it has the right home.
"Do less, better."
1973 King 3B Silver Sonic
1987 Bach 42BO
1994ish Getzen Eterna 1062 Dave Taylor (stacked)
cozzagiorgi
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by cozzagiorgi » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:55 pm

BrassedOn wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:20 am


So not as rare as many on the list, but earlier Conn 62H, tuning in the slide. I've played a handful, and they had that classic conn bass bone sound. Just a pleasure.
Definitely on my list when the timing is right.
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Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:39 am

RJMason wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:33 pm
I paid a few hundred more than eBay prices for my 6H. But it was formerly owned by Wayne Andre and easily one of the best sounding trombones I’ve ever played. I never really played Conn until I picked that horn up at the shop and played it for an hour. Purchased immediately. I would probably pony up for a Minick small bore if another one comes up (just missed the last one at BrassArk), a Peppy made small bore Bach that played exceptionally well, Or maybe if Drew put the Billy Byer’s Williams 4 up for sale ;D
Finally registered here. Don’t think that 4 is going to be for sale any time soon. Will give you a heads up if I do decide to.
Professional bum.
Leanit
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Wich rare horn would you buy EVEN...

Post by Leanit » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:04 pm

Interesting question. I finally fell into the Williams 10 bass I've wanted. I think that was my only remaining object of trombone lust.
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