Lawler trombones

Doug Elliott
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Doug Elliott » Sat May 11, 2019 11:13 am

The "wear" would only be burnishing, causing it to fit better. No actual wear, no material lost.
Mikebmiller
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Mikebmiller » Sat May 11, 2019 2:58 pm

I will try that next time I have the Lawler out (tomorrow).Thanks for the suggestion.
keybone
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by keybone » Sat May 11, 2019 7:57 pm

Bruce, Doug - I probably will not be around in a few decades!
Seriously, thanks for your input.
Mikebmiller
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Mikebmiller » Sun May 12, 2019 7:50 pm

Big thanks guys - I tightened the nut with the bell at a 270 degree angle and then twisted it into place and made it through a whole rehearsal with not slippage. But I did miss a couple of notes. Who should I call about that?
PaulT
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by PaulT » Sun May 12, 2019 8:38 pm

Glad it worked.
I think the most common approach is to fit the two sections together, rotate to snug, then thread and tighten the nut. Without an instrument in my hands I don't know if matters a whit one way or another, but the "tell" you are looking for is the fit, feel and snugness of the two sections independent of the nut. Once the two sections are snug and secure in the proper position to each other, then the nut is threaded and tightened, functioning, for the most part, as a blessing to the union :wink:

But, maybe nut first/nut last on the trombone is like sugar/no sugar on the lefse. :idea:
TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Mon May 13, 2019 5:04 am

----

I've never given this any thought probably because I've always put my horns together in this manner. The one Lawler of mine that needed the rat file treatment on the nut was done because there was no gap and the nut would make contact with the cork barrel.

I second what PaulT says. Tighten the nut after rotating the parts together. Thanks PaulT for bringing this up.

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Dbone
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Dbone » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:33 am

I just received my Lawler Model 1 trombone in Roy’s recommended set up: .500 bore, yellow brass stem, slide, and 8” .22 yellow bell, and a 7.5” rose brass bell.

In a word, delightful. The trombone has a wonderfully rich and full sound. I had been playing a Rath R10, yellow brass with nickel silver slide (I would now like to sell if anyone is interested), which is an excellent instrument as well. In a blinded sound test, my wife and sons liked the sound of the Lawler. Their comments: “it velvety and warm”, “it sounds smoother”, “the sound is fuller”.

In a week of playing and practicing, the Lawler does seem to have more character. I read a post from Andy Baker saying the Rath is more “pure and compact”, which I too would agree. The Lawler seems to have a classic, old fashioned jazzy sound, which I and my family seem to prefer.

Thank you to all who have posted insights into experiences with Lawler Trombones. It was a pleasure to work with Roy Lawler and Keith from Schmitt Music.

Please let me know if you are interested in the Rath R10.
TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:16 pm

Dbone wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:33 am
I just received my Lawler Model 1 trombone in Roy’s recommended set up: .500 bore, yellow brass stem, slide, and 8” .22 yellow bell, and a 7.5” rose brass bell.

In a word, delightful. The trombone has a wonderfully rich and full sound. I had been playing a Rath R10, yellow brass with nickel silver slide (I would now like to sell if anyone is interested), which is an excellent instrument as well. In a blinded sound test, my wife and sons liked the sound of the Lawler. Their comments: “it velvety and warm”, “it sounds smoother”, “the sound is fuller”.

In a week of playing and practicing, the Lawler does seem to have more character. I read a post from Andy Baker saying the Rath is more “pure and compact”, which I too would agree. The Lawler seems to have a classic, old fashioned jazzy sound, which I and my family seem to prefer.

Thank you to all who have posted insights into experiences with Lawler Trombones. It was a pleasure to work with Roy Lawler and Keith from Schmitt Music.

Please let me know if you are interested in the Rath R10.
=====

Thanks for the report and I'm glad you are enjoying your new Lawler.

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Davidus1
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:06 pm

Have the "Big Boys" started hitting the market yet? Just curious. Currently playing a .525 horn and am liking it. Very curious how the Lawlers are being received if they are being sold yet. Thanks.
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TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:03 pm

Davidus1 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:06 pm
Have the "Big Boys" started hitting the market yet? Just curious. Currently playing a .525 horn and am liking it. Very curious how the Lawlers are being received if they are being sold yet. Thanks.
====

Not yet.

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TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:34 am

TheSheriff wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:03 pm
Davidus1 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:06 pm
Have the "Big Boys" started hitting the market yet? Just curious. Currently playing a .525 horn and am liking it. Very curious how the Lawlers are being received if they are being sold yet. Thanks.
====

Not yet.

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Ok, there is one out there, in California, and another going to Switzerland soon.
Roy is waiting on slide tubes and the one he sent to California has slide tubes that were samples sent to him. I do not know who the owner is, but if you hang out here, give us a shout.

Roy told me his full tube order will arrive next week.

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salsabone
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by salsabone » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:58 pm

HI All, Sorry to resurrect an old thread...MrSheriff, I too just got my Lawler model 3 fern Ken Hinson at Schmitt music at the ITF at Ball Stat univ. Ken is a great guy. FYI I got a yellow brass bell stem with the 8" yellow .025 flare and the 7 1/2" ,025 red brass flare. I bought/fell in love with the one all nickel .500/.508 slide that they had. I love nickel!! The model 3 in quite unlike any other trombone that I own(and I have about 40+ small bores of various brands!).
My question is what, if any, bags that anyone who has a Lawler with 2 flares has anyone found a bag(either slightly padded or just fabric) to replace the bubble wrap and towel system that comes with the horn?


Thanks salsabone
Kevin
TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:17 am

salsabone wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:58 pm
HI All, Sorry to resurrect an old thread...MrSheriff, I too just got my Lawler model 3 fern Ken Hinson at Schmitt music at the ITF at Ball Stat univ. Ken is a great guy. FYI I got a yellow brass bell stem with the 8" yellow .025 flare and the 7 1/2" ,025 red brass flare. I bought/fell in love with the one all nickel .500/.508 slide that they had. I love nickel!! The model 3 in quite unlike any other trombone that I own(and I have about 40+ small bores of various brands!).
My question is what, if any, bags that anyone who has a Lawler with 2 flares has anyone found a bag(either slightly padded or just fabric) to replace the bubble wrap and towel system that comes with the horn?


Thanks salsabone
Kevin
=====

I'm glad you like your model 3, it's my favorite. I use a 500/508 dual bore too. I don't use a Lawler case so I can't help you there. I've never needed to bring an extra flare to a gig I just use the one I like best and put the horn in my Protec.

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Mikebmiller
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Mikebmiller » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:35 am

I got my second flare (8")a few months ago and played with it at home for a little while, then put the first one (7.5") back on and haven't touched it since. I will probably use it if I am playing something other than lead with the Lawler. I really like the nickel slide as well.
salsabone
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by salsabone » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:32 pm

Thanks for the advice gentlemen!! It will take me a while to discern what flare I do like the best Or if I wish to purchase others. That is the best thing about the Lawler trombones, you can change up your sound so easily by using another flare! Where I live(northern Delaware) it seems that the defacto rehearsal night is Wednesday night. I still work at my job at DMV, and I will continue to strive to find a jazz or salsa band gig on some other night!

I do have a tool bag coming from amazon that may do the trick. I will let you all know if I have any positive outcomes!
Kevin
Badgerm
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Badgerm » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:38 am

I’m the Californian with the Model 4.

I chose the following: .022 Red Brass stem / R2 8” flare, round bead / Z2 8” flare, round bead (raw) / Yellow Brass slide / #10 lead pipe (removable).

I’m using a Griego 5 mouthpiece (Deco / Silver).

I’m still learning the horn and will report back in a few weeks. Every time I pick it up to play, however, I’m in awe... people throw around the term “axe” when referring to their instrument. To me, this is more “Excalibur / sword-in-the-stone” status. I’ll give more detail than “I love it” in a few weeks.

Chris
Davidus1
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:46 pm

Confrats on your purchase!
Badgerm wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:38 am
I’m the Californian with the Model 4.

I chose the following: .022 Red Brass stem / R2 8” flare, round bead / Z2 8” flare, round bead (raw) / Yellow Brass slide / #10 lead pipe (removable).

I’m using a Griego 5 mouthpiece (Deco / Silver).

I’m still learning the horn and will report back in a few weeks. Every time I pick it up to play, however, I’m in awe... people throw around the term “axe” when referring to their instrument. To me, this is more “Excalibur / sword-in-the-stone” status. I’ll give more detail than “I love it” in a few weeks.

Chris
Conn Victor 5H
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TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:16 pm

Badgerm wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:38 am
I’m the Californian with the Model 4.

I chose the following: .022 Red Brass stem / R2 8” flare, round bead / Z2 8” flare, round bead (raw) / Yellow Brass slide / #10 lead pipe (removable).

I’m using a Griego 5 mouthpiece (Deco / Silver).

I’m still learning the horn and will report back in a few weeks. Every time I pick it up to play, however, I’m in awe... people throw around the term “axe” when referring to their instrument. To me, this is more “Excalibur / sword-in-the-stone” status. I’ll give more detail than “I love it” in a few weeks.

Chris
-------

Thanks for checking in!

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bbalika
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by bbalika » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:17 pm

Do Lawlers fit well in protec and skb cases?
TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:51 pm

bbalika wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:17 pm
Do Lawlers fit well in protec and skb cases?
=====

Yes. Leave the flare attached and it'll fit in any standard case.

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Lawler model 1
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johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:50 am

Hello Lawler players, I’m wondering how the horn feels in the left hand. That may seem like a silly question but recently I’ve been playing my Rath R3 with the goose neck and find my hand and arm getting tired and sore.

I have an R10 but have become tired of the sound and also that certain notes, like Bb in 5th position for example, don’t speak clearly. I’m finding the R3 easier to play and like the sound better.

But, I still want something a bit more nimble for jazz and would like a warmer sound. The model 3 certainly sounds intriguing and I could also be interested in the model 4. Unfortunately I live very far away from Tennessee (in Sweden) so a visit won’t be possible. Any suggestions on a basic setup?

Many thanks for any input, John
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by RJMason » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:09 am

Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.

I owned an older Lawler .525 Big Boy. Yellow brass, nickel slide with yellow slide crook. Amazing sound, so round and easy to play. For me it was more of a jazz or horn section instrument.

The beauty of his horns are the removable flares which can help you hone in on a particular sound for a particular job. My favorites are: .025 yellow brass for loud brass band, street band, maybe a NOLA style lead bone sound. .025 red brass 7.5 inch, all around, jazz solo, lead big band, paired with the yellow stem. .025 Bronze for recordings and orchestral work where a smaller horn would work. I like his .022 yellow brass and red brass stems the best. I owned a .025 yellow stem for years, but it only worked well for me when I had to play very loud on a gig. I also prefer the bells to have a traditional bell bead, like a Bach, instead of the folded over bell flare edge he makes. If a flare like that dents, it’s really hard to bend it back to shape unless Roy himself fixes it on his mandrels. That would be expensive and tedious for you considering your location.

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!!
johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:23 pm

RJMason wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:09 am
Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.
.........

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!!
Hello RJ,

Thanks for the detailed response. I’m leaning more and more towards the 3, but that big boy with the 3 style bell sounds really intriguing.

All the best,

John
TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:12 pm

johntarr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:23 pm
RJMason wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:09 am
Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.
.........

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!!
Hello RJ,

Thanks for the detailed response. I’m leaning more and more towards the 3, but that big boy with the 3 style bell sounds really intriguing.

All the best,

John
====

My model 3 is very well balanced and feels great in the left hand. Send Roy an email to work out details.

====
Lawler model 1
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TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:45 am

johntarr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:23 pm
RJMason wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:09 am
Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.
.........

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!!
Hello RJ,

Thanks for the detailed response. I’m leaning more and more towards the 3, but that big boy with the 3 style bell sounds really intriguing.

All the best,

John
===

Regarding flares. I prefer the standard Lawler bead where it is folded back onto itself over a traditional rolled bead with or without a rimwire. The Lawler bead is very fast in its response and to my ear has more sparkle and immediacy than a traditional bead. Get one of each!

===
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johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:37 pm

Now I’m wondering about the dual bore slide vs single bore for the model 3. Any thoughts or opinions? Thanks in advance, John
TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:44 am

johntarr wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:37 pm
Now I’m wondering about the dual bore slide vs single bore for the model 3. Any thoughts or opinions? Thanks in advance, John
=====

I have both a 500 and 500/508 dual bore. I prefer the 500/508 dual bore. I like a more open blow. Some of my fellow trombonists prefer it with the 500.

=====
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johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:03 pm


I have both a 500 and 500/508 dual bore. I prefer the 500/508 dual bore. I like a more open blow. Some of my fellow trombonists prefer it with the 500.
Thanks Sheriff! Also for all of your other posts with information on the Lawlers.
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:05 pm

johntarr wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:50 am
Hello Lawler players, I’m wondering how the horn feels in the left hand. That may seem like a silly question but recently I’ve been playing my Rath R3 with the goose neck and find my hand and arm getting tired and sore.

I have an R10 but have become tired of the sound and also that certain notes, like Bb in 5th position for example, don’t speak clearly. I’m finding the R3 easier to play and like the sound better.

But, I still want something a bit more nimble for jazz and would like a warmer sound. The model 3 certainly sounds intriguing and I could also be interested in the model 4. Unfortunately I live very far away from Tennessee (in Sweden) so a visit won’t be possible. Any suggestions on a basic setup?

Many thanks for any input, John
====

Roy's hand slides are very light and if paired with a heavy .025 or .022 stem with a heavyish flare the east west balance, if you will, can somewhat torque the horn away from your face and cause discomfort in your left hand. It is especially noticeable if your left hand and shoulder are troublesome. To remedy this you can order the stem in lightweight .020 yellow brass. He does not advertise it on his web site but he has it.

If you prefer a heavier stem I suggest that you have him increase the weight on the inside (neckpipe side) of the bell section. I'm talking model 3 here. That means the connecting ferrule for the single solid core cross brace needs to be heavy wall and the connecting ferrule on the big (bell side) needs to be thin wall. You need to request that.

Another great choice would be a model 2 in .020 yellow brass. The connecting ferrules for both upper cross braces are thin wall and the balance is superb. For even more rearward balance on a model 2 you could request both cross braces be solid core. Please note that the distance from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell is 10.5" on both the model 2 and 3, which is the same as a Williams model 6. A model 1 is about 11.25".

For a model 1, I prefer to have the outside built-in counter weight made thin wall and the inside counterweight made heavy wall to prevent any torquing. But that's me, a 65 year old thousands of gigs somewhat arthritic trombone playing beast talking. The trombone isn't exactly an ergonomically friendly instrument.

A model 4 "Big Boy" made to be set back like a model 2 would be in my opinion, an outstanding choice. .020 yellow stem and everything else yellow brass too, though maybe a nickel hand slide crook. I may have to get one!

====
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johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:36 pm

Thanks again Sheriff, for the detailed information.


I keep leaning towards a 525 bore horn so sent Mr. Lawler a message asking about the possibility of a .20 stem for the model 4.
A model 4 "Big Boy" made to be set back like a model 2 would be in my opinion, an outstanding choice. .020 yellow stem and everything else yellow brass too, though maybe a nickel hand slide crook. I may have to get one!
====
TromboneMonkey
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TromboneMonkey » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:35 am

Hey everyone,

I've been gigging on my Lawler 3 solely for 9 months now. I have only brought my Williams 4 out once since, and promptly put it back away. The Lawler is just too easy to play for me to use anything else.

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between. Those of you who have tried them: what would you say the difference between a 7.75 light red and a 7.75 heavy yellow flare would be, all else being equal?

Obviously in any case it's going to be an educated guess on my part, but that's why I'm here: for education!

By the way my 3 is a .500 all yellow brass with the light weight stem. I use a seamed sterling Brassark 32h pipe (thanks MattK) in it and a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs (thanks Joe Jackson) mouthpiece in it. It's a monster in pretty much every way.
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:28 pm

How is it switching horns from the set back bell to the more common bell length? Because I’ll still use my Rath R3F, I’m wondering if having a Lawler with the set back bell would be confusing in the visual relationship between the slide position the bell. Are there any other advantages to the set back bell other than player feedback? Is it easier to use a plunger, for example?
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BGuttman
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by BGuttman » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:25 pm

Conn used a "set back" bell on the various Ballroom models. It was intended to make mute changes easier.

I've found it doesn't help plunger;I balance the rim on my left wrist and use my left hand to work the plunger. Bell position really doesn't make any difference.

I'm comparing a Conn 40H with a Holton 67 (Stratodyne).
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
TromboneMonkey
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TromboneMonkey » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 am

TromboneMonkey wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:35 am

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between.
Update: I talked to Roy. He's sending me an 8" lightweight bronze flare. I'm very excited to try it.
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:07 am

TromboneMonkey wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 am
TromboneMonkey wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:35 am

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between.
Update: I talked to Roy. He's sending me an 8" lightweight bronze flare. I'm very excited to try it.
...

His lightest bronze is a mid-weight at .022.

...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:14 am

johntarr wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:28 pm
How is it switching horns from the set back bell to the more common bell length? Because I’ll still use my Rath R3F, I’m wondering if having a Lawler with the set back bell would be confusing in the visual relationship between the slide position the bell. Are there any other advantages to the set back bell other than player feedback? Is it easier to use a plunger, for example?
...

Close your eyes and play. Adjusting between a bell forward and a setback bell has never been a problem for me. Player feedback should not be underestimated. It is pretty dramatic as compared to a bell forward design. Overall ergonomics of the setback design are in my opinion the single best thing about the design. Great balance means overall ease of playability, including plunger playing.

...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:16 am

BGuttman wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:25 pm
Conn used a "set back" bell on the various Ballroom models. It was intended to make mute changes easier.

I've found it doesn't help plunger;I balance the rim on my left wrist and use my left hand to work the plunger. Bell position really doesn't make any difference.

I'm comparing a Conn 40H with a Holton 67 (Stratodyne).
...

For you. We’re all different. I find plunger playing easier with a setback bell.

...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:35 am

...

Yesterday I ordered a model 4/SB...(Set Back) like his model 2. I Configured it to be very light. A .020 yellow stem, connecting ferrules are thinwall, main tuning slide cross brace is solid for best balance, lower cross brace is hollow, his trademark branch guard on the tuning slide bow, nickel neck pipe.

The hand slide is ultra lightweight nickel tubes with a brass end bow. He also made a skeletonized ring for flare attachment/detachment. He did this by drilling holes around the circumference. He says it looks really cool too, like a saltwater fishing reel.

I have plenty of flares to try but the first one I will try will be my 8” .020 yellow.

He’s going to send it in his new case which he says is similar to the Bonna case.

...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:20 am

TheSheriff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:35 am
...

Yesterday I ordered a model 4/SB...(Set Back) like his model 2. I Configured it to be very light. A .020 yellow stem, connecting ferrules are thinwall, main tuning slide cross brace is solid for best balance, lower cross brace is hollow, his trademark branch guard on the tuning slide bow, nickel neck pipe.

The hand slide is ultra lightweight nickel tubes with a brass end bow. He also made a skeletonized ring for flare attachment/detachment. He did this by drilling holes around the circumference. He says it looks really cool too, like a saltwater fishing reel.

I have plenty of flares to try but the first one I will try will be my 8” .020 yellow.

He’s going to send it in his new case which he says is similar to the Bonna case.

...
Sounds really cool! I’ve been communicating with Roy on ordering a horn. I’ve been waffling between the model 3 and model 4. I like the openness of the .525 but wonder if a smaller bore would be better for facility and endurance. I am also very interested in the J-bend. He also said he could make the model 4 with J-bend like the three, perhaps that would be the best of both worlds.

I’m curious, Sheriff, what your thoughts were on ordering the setup that you ordered. Was the .20 stem solely for weight reasons or/and for sound qualities?

Thanks again for all of your contributions,

John
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:13 am

johntarr wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:20 am
TheSheriff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:35 am
...

Yesterday I ordered a model 4/SB...(Set Back) like his model 2. I Configured it to be very light. A .020 yellow stem, connecting ferrules are thinwall, main tuning slide cross brace is solid for best balance, lower cross brace is hollow, his trademark branch guard on the tuning slide bow, nickel neck pipe.

The hand slide is ultra lightweight nickel tubes with a brass end bow. He also made a skeletonized ring for flare attachment/detachment. He did this by drilling holes around the circumference. He says it looks really cool too, like a saltwater fishing reel.

I have plenty of flares to try but the first one I will try will be my 8” .020 yellow.

He’s going to send it in his new case which he says is similar to the Bonna case.

...
Sounds really cool! I’ve been communicating with Roy on ordering a horn. I’ve been waffling between the model 3 and model 4. I like the openness of the .525 but wonder if a smaller bore would be better for facility and endurance. I am also very interested in the J-bend. He also said he could make the model 4 with J-bend like the three, perhaps that would be the best of both worlds.

I’m curious, Sheriff, what your thoughts were on ordering the setup that you ordered. Was the .20 stem solely for weight reasons or/and for sound qualities?

Thanks again for all of your contributions,

John
...

A model 3 with a 500/508 dual bore is nice and open, and a model 4 should be too. A j-bend model 4 would be the most open. I will be curious to try the 500 and 500/508 slides on the model 4 bell section. The model 4 bell section is identical to the other models except the neck pipe is a larger diameter, so it could make for some interesting results with the smaller bore slides.

Also, the model 4 hand slide is a tad wider than the other models.

The .020 is solely for weight reasons. I will sound like Scott Bentall no matter what trombone I play.

...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:50 pm

TromboneMonkey wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:35 am
Hey everyone,

I've been gigging on my Lawler 3 solely for 9 months now. I have only brought my Williams 4 out once since, and promptly put it back away. The Lawler is just too easy to play for me to use anything else.

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between. Those of you who have tried them: what would you say the difference between a 7.75 light red and a 7.75 heavy yellow flare would be, all else being equal?

Obviously in any case it's going to be an educated guess on my part, but that's why I'm here: for education!

By the way my 3 is a .500 all yellow brass with the light weight stem. I use a seamed sterling Brassark 32h pipe (thanks MattK) in it and a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs (thanks Joe Jackson) mouthpiece in it. It's a monster in pretty much every way.
...

I’ve not tried any 7.75 flares, but I am a big fan of my 7.5” .022 red flare.

...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:31 am

TromboneMonkey wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:35 am
Hey everyone,

I've been gigging on my Lawler 3 solely for 9 months now. I have only brought my Williams 4 out once since, and promptly put it back away. The Lawler is just too easy to play for me to use anything else.

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between. Those of you who have tried them: what would you say the difference between a 7.75 light red and a 7.75 heavy yellow flare would be, all else being equal?

Obviously in any case it's going to be an educated guess on my part, but that's why I'm here: for education!

By the way my 3 is a .500 all yellow brass with the light weight stem. I use a seamed sterling Brassark 32h pipe (thanks MattK) in it and a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs (thanks Joe Jackson) mouthpiece in it. It's a monster in pretty much every way.
..

I think the difference between a .022 red flare and a .025 yellow flare will be fairly dramatic regardless of diameter. The red is a touch warmer but can get zippy when you push it, mainly because of it being .022. A .025 yellow is going to have more density to its sound and feel.

You say your stem is lightweight yellow. .020 or .022? He does not advertise the .020 yellow on his website, it has to be requested. I am pretty sure yours is .022 which is mid-weight, unless you know for sure that it is .020. I don’t mean to sound jerky but I am a bit of a stickler for accuracy in terminology because it is important to all that read this. The only lightweight he offers (.020) is yellow brass and must be requested unless he offers it up during consultation. His standard and recommended set up uses a mid-weight .022 yellow brass.

Please let us know.

Thanks..

..
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TromboneMonkey » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:09 am

You're right; I meant .022. I'm pleased for the correction-- I honestly didn't know a lighter one existed!

I got a .022 Bronze 8" flare. I can't really describe how it plays compared to my others in few words-- it's "harder", but still "darker", if that makes sense. I'm very excited to try it on gigs because in a practice room it's so different that I can't pin down exactly how it's going to play in a variety of situations.
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:13 pm

TromboneMonkey wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:09 am
You're right; I meant .022. I'm pleased for the correction-- I honestly didn't know a lighter one existed!

I got a .022 Bronze 8" flare. I can't really describe how it plays compared to my others in few words-- it's "harder", but still "darker", if that makes sense. I'm very excited to try it on gigs because in a practice room it's so different that I can't pin down exactly how it's going to play in a variety of situations.
..

I know what you mean. I have a .025 bronze 8”, and I like it but it is hard to describe it.

..
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TromboneMonkey » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:32 pm

Well I took my bell flares out for a spin on a 3-horn section gig.

With my horn, I had originally purchased a 7.5" .022 Yellow Brass bell. I had supplemented it with an 8" .025 Red Brass bell because I felt that I wasn't getting a 'round' enough sound. The heavier red bell was very warm and round, but I felt I was missing the higher overtones, hence my desire to find one in between.

I don't know whether it was the bell size (the Bronze bell is slightly smaller than the red, closer to 7.75" if I had to guess), the thickness but weightiness of the bronze (it's .022" but every bit as heavy as the .025" Red flare), or the material difference, but the Bronze bell sounded straight BETTER than my other two flares on my gig. The trumpet player mentioned it immediately. He said it got a "really great tone for how bright it is".

Cool! I'm gonna keep it.
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:20 pm

TromboneMonkey wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:32 pm
Well I took my bell flares out for a spin on a 3-horn section gig.

With my horn, I had originally purchased a 7.5" .022 Yellow Brass bell. I had supplemented it with an 8" .025 Red Brass bell because I felt that I wasn't getting a 'round' enough sound. The heavier red bell was very warm and round, but I felt I was missing the higher overtones, hence my desire to find one in between.

I don't know whether it was the bell size (the Bronze bell is slightly smaller than the red, closer to 7.75" if I had to guess), the thickness but weightiness of the bronze (it's .022" but every bit as heavy as the .025" Red flare), or the material difference, but the Bronze bell sounded straight BETTER than my other two flares on my gig. The trumpet player mentioned it immediately. He said it got a "really great tone for how bright it is".

Cool! I'm gonna keep it.
..

There ya go! Nothing like the heat of battle to suss things out.

..
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by bkessler » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:53 pm

Hi all,
New to the forum, but wanted to give you a thank you for all of these posts about Lawler trombones.
I've been wanting a new jazz horn for a while now, and after my friend reminded me about Lawlers, I found this thread and a couple of others. It was obvious from the threads that nearly everyone who tries the instruments loves them, and that Roy is a great person to deal with.

I went to my friend's place to blow on his Model 2 for a while, and was amazed at what a great horn it is. Super comfortable, plays great (and so easy to play), looks fantastic, and has so many little touches that make so much sense- the longer spit valve stem and its placement, the curved slide grip, the slick bell to slide coupling...all great touches. I was really impressed with how much the different flares changed the tone of the instrument, too. If you're reading this thread, and not sure if you'd like a Lawler trombone, I have a very strong feeling the answer will be yes. What a fabulous instrument.

I tried that horn Wednesday morning, and I went home and wrote an email to Roy right away. He got back to me super quickly with ideas/recommendations, and I talked to him again this morning by phone, at which time I ordered a horn. Roy is such an incredibly nice guy, and is very generously sending me two different slides to try out, since I was torn about what bore size to get.


Here's what I ordered:
Model 2R Standard weight red brass stem, neck pipe, main crook
Flares R2 .022 red brass 7.5”
Y2 .022 yellow brass 8”
.500 or .508” Ultra lightweight Nickel slide brass end bow (he's sending both, and I'll send one back)
Brush Lacquer/case

I'll check in again once I have the horn.
johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:07 am

bkessler wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:53 pm
Hi all,
New to the forum, but wanted to give you a thank you for all of these posts about Lawler trombones.
I've been wanting a new jazz horn for a while now, and after my friend reminded me about Lawlers, I found this thread and a couple of others. It was obvious from the threads that nearly everyone who tries the instruments loves them, and that Roy is a great person to deal with.

I went to my friend's place to blow on his Model 2 for a while, and was amazed at what a great horn it is. Super comfortable, plays great (and so easy to play), looks fantastic, and has so many little touches that make so much sense- the longer spit valve stem and its placement, the curved slide grip, the slick bell to slide coupling...all great touches. I was really impressed with how much the different flares changed the tone of the instrument, too. If you're reading this thread, and not sure if you'd like a Lawler trombone, I have a very strong feeling the answer will be yes. What a fabulous instrument.

I tried that horn Wednesday morning, and I went home and wrote an email to Roy right away. He got back to me super quickly with ideas/recommendations, and I talked to him again this morning by phone, at which time I ordered a horn. Roy is such an incredibly nice guy, and is very generously sending me two different slides to try out, since I was torn about what bore size to get.


Here's what I ordered:
Model 2R Standard weight red brass stem, neck pipe, main crook
Flares R2 .022 red brass 7.5”
Y2 .022 yellow brass 8”
.500 or .508” Ultra lightweight Nickel slide brass end bow (he's sending both, and I'll send one back)
Brush Lacquer/case

I'll check in again once I have the horn.
I too have ordered a horn but won’t be able to get it until the end of December when I will be visiting my parents in the USA. It was really hard deciding which size to get but I settled on a model 4 with a setback bell. The stem will be standard red brass and the slide nickel. I will order 3 flares and possibly send one back.

Now just the wait...
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:04 pm

bkessler wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:53 pm
Hi all,
New to the forum, but wanted to give you a thank you for all of these posts about Lawler trombones.
I've been wanting a new jazz horn for a while now, and after my friend reminded me about Lawlers, I found this thread and a couple of others. It was obvious from the threads that nearly everyone who tries the instruments loves them, and that Roy is a great person to deal with.

I went to my friend's place to blow on his Model 2 for a while, and was amazed at what a great horn it is. Super comfortable, plays great (and so easy to play), looks fantastic, and has so many little touches that make so much sense- the longer spit valve stem and its placement, the curved slide grip, the slick bell to slide coupling...all great touches. I was really impressed with how much the different flares changed the tone of the instrument, too. If you're reading this thread, and not sure if you'd like a Lawler trombone, I have a very strong feeling the answer will be yes. What a fabulous instrument.

I tried that horn Wednesday morning, and I went home and wrote an email to Roy right away. He got back to me super quickly with ideas/recommendations, and I talked to him again this morning by phone, at which time I ordered a horn. Roy is such an incredibly nice guy, and is very generously sending me two different slides to try out, since I was torn about what bore size to get.


Here's what I ordered:
Model 2R Standard weight red brass stem, neck pipe, main crook
Flares R2 .022 red brass 7.5”
Y2 .022 yellow brass 8”
.500 or .508” Ultra lightweight Nickel slide brass end bow (he's sending both, and I'll send one back)
Brush Lacquer/case

I'll check in again once I have the horn.
..
Congratulations! They are great horns.
..
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
johntarr
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by johntarr » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:25 pm

Has anyone else tried a model 4 yet? I’m receiving one at the end of the month and am really curious and excited.

Happy holidays to all,

John
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