Lawler trombones

mrdeacon
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by mrdeacon » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:08 pm

Sherrif, is the J bend fully continuous like a Williams J bend?

It's hard to tell but with the extra brace it seems like it would still disrupt the taper.

I have a Williams style J bend and my Minick bass and I absolutely love how it plays. I feel that I get the best of both worlds, continuous taper, and lighter weight slide, with it.
Conn 88H 1980s, Elliott XT
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott MB
TheSheriff
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Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:43 am

mrdeacon wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:08 pm
Sherrif, is the J bend fully continuous like a Williams J bend?

It's hard to tell but with the extra brace it seems like it would still disrupt the taper.

I have a Williams style J bend and my Minick bass and I absolutely love how it plays. I feel that I get the best of both worlds, continuous taper, and lighter weight slide, with it.
=====

The j-bend in the prototype was one continuous piece, but in doing so he had to make the instrument wider which is something he did not like. Making it wider was required because it was impossible to put a bend in the neck pipe area of the j-bend which would have been necessary to allow for an 8" flare.

So what he did is make it two piece, allowing him to put a traditional bend in the neck pipe which will then accommodate an 8" flare without being too close to your passing fingers. Importantly though, the taper is continuous (same as the prototype) because the neck pipe butts up to the tuning slide bow and is soldered or brazed, I don't know which, with absolutely no interruption in the continuous taper. The cross brace is brazed to heavy ferrules that fit around the tubing, so there is no interruption at all.

It's a beautiful design that plays beautifully. You are correct about getting the best of both worlds. The continuous taper of a TIS trombone bell section, but without the extra weight of a TIS hand slide. Brilliant!

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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
mrdeacon
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by mrdeacon » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:33 am

That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?
Conn 88H 1980s, Elliott XT
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott MB
TheSheriff
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:22 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:33 am
That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?
-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.
Stay tuned.

======
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
MalecHeermans
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:40 pm

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by MalecHeermans » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:57 am

I'll post some thoughts soon, but in the meantime enjoy this little clip of the Lawler in action:

TheSheriff
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Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:18 pm

=======

Malec............Nice!

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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
TheSheriff
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:24 pm

------

Hey all,

I have been re-acquainting myself with Lawler leadpipes. For the longest time I have been using a Kanstul W6.

I have all three of the Lawler leadpipes; 5, 10, and 15. I have come to realize that the 10 pipe is the best one for me in my model 3. Better than my Kanstul W6 and a host of other pipes I have. The Lawler 15 seems to work best in my model 1, though the 10 ain't bad either. The 5 is too tight for the way I blow.

There must be a synergy in his tapers. Y'know, how they work together as a system; the tapers of the neckpipe, tuning slide crook, bell stem, and leadpipe.

The more I play his stuff, the more I realize he is a genius. My opinion only.

=====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Davidus1
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:36 pm

TheSheriff wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:22 pm
mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:33 am
That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?
-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.
Stay tuned.

======
Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
TheSheriff
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Davidus1 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:36 pm
TheSheriff wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:22 pm
mrdeacon wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:33 am
That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?
-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.
Stay tuned.

======
Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.
========

I think I'll have a prototype in my hands in the next couple months or so. He's still working on it. There will be no compatibility between the model 4 and the models 1, 2, or 3. It will be a stand alone .525. I will keep y'all posted, so please stay tuned.

------------
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Davidus1
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:56 pm

TheSheriff wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:55 pm
Davidus1 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:36 pm
TheSheriff wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:22 pm

-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.
Stay tuned.

======
Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.
========

I think I'll have a prototype in my hands in the next couple months or so. He's still working on it. There will be no compatibility between the model 4 and the models 1, 2, or 3. It will be a stand alone .525. I will keep y'all posted, so please stay tuned.

------------
Thanks for the info! I'm primarily a .525 player anymore so I was happy to hear he is planning to produce one!
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
Davidus1
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:27 pm

TheSheriff wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:55 pm
Davidus1 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:36 pm
TheSheriff wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:22 pm

-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.
Stay tuned.

======
Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.
========

I think I'll have a prototype in my hands in the next couple months or so. He's still working on it. There will be no compatibility between the model 4 and the models 1, 2, or 3. It will be a stand alone .525. I will keep y'all posted, so please stay tuned.

------------
Any progress on this? Just curious if he's working on the .525 yet. I hear great things about his horns.
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
TheSheriff
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:57 am

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Just a quick update on the Lawler .525. I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands after the first of the year. One will be a bell forward design like his model 1, and the other will be a set back bell like his model 2.

I'll be sure to post my review after I've spent some time with them.

-------
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Davidus1
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:04 am

TheSheriff wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:57 am
------

Just a quick update on the Lawler .525. I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands after the first of the year. One will be a bell forward design like his model 1, and the other will be a set back bell like his model 2.

I'll be sure to post my review after I've spent some time with them.

-------
What's the difference in bell forward vs set back other than feedback to the player? Is there a difference in the sound the audience hears or just different to the player? Thanks for the update.
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
TheSheriff
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:21 am

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The difference is feedback to the player. Naturally, there are subtle differences between bell forward and set back bell concerning overall feel of the instrument.

------
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
TheSheriff
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Location: Chicagoland

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by TheSheriff » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:26 am

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Another update. The model 4 .525 bore (BigBoy) will have compatibility with the .500 and .508 models. Originally, the model 4 was going to be a stand alone model, but after much thought, Roy decided to abandon that idea. And for what it's worth, I agree.

This means the same bell flares can be used and even the hand slides can be interchanged, which may or may not provide some interesting results.

Design wise, the main difference between the model 4 and the small bores, is that the model 4 will have a larger i.d. neck pipe and taper differences. Also, the hand slide will be a bit wider than the small bore hand slides.

I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands in about 3 weeks. I'm really looking forward to the BigBoy, and I have a feeling it's going to be a big hit!

====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
AndyBaker
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:33 pm

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by AndyBaker » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm

Hi all,
I ordered my new Lawler model 1 last year after playing the Sheriff's - he's always been the guy I've trusted most about gear. It arrived on Wednesday - I was so happy, I played it on my big band gig that night.

I went for the package deal - 2 bells and a case. I think these are EXTREMELY good value for custom trombones (last I checked the Shires MD was somewhere north of $3500?)

My set-up:
Model 1 - 0.25 Yellow brass stem, nickel neck pipe
.500/.508 brass slide with a nickel crook
.22 yellow 8" flare
.25 red 7.5" flare

The craftsmanship is beautiful, and the SOUND - a real jazz trombone (as I expected after my first Lawler).

Happily the gig was recorded for later broadcast and the engineer gave me a rough mix there and then. I was playing the red bell (on lead), and I'm extremely happy with the way it sounded.
I tried to upload a clip, but unfortunately I can't add the attachment...

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts as time goes on, but this is a really great trombone.
Davidus1
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Lawler trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:20 pm

Thanks for sharing. Glad you like the new horn. Enjoy!



AndyBaker wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Hi all,
I ordered my new Lawler model 1 last year after playing the Sheriff's - he's always been the guy I've trusted most about gear. It arrived on Wednesday - I was so happy, I played it on my big band gig that night.

I went for the package deal - 2 bells and a case. I think these are EXTREMELY good value for custom trombones (last I checked the Shires MD was somewhere north of $3500?)

My set-up:
Model 1 - 0.25 Yellow brass stem, nickel neck pipe
.500/.508 brass slide with a nickel crook
.22 yellow 8" flare
.25 red 7.5" flare

The craftsmanship is beautiful, and the SOUND - a real jazz trombone (as I expected after my first Lawler).

Happily the gig was recorded for later broadcast and the engineer gave me a rough mix there and then. I was playing the red bell (on lead), and I'm extremely happy with the way it sounded.
I tried to upload a clip, but unfortunately I can't add the attachment...

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts as time goes on, but this is a really great trombone.
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
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