Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post Reply
hyperbolica
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by hyperbolica » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:56 am

I'm a bit of a 525 junkie. I've owned several 79h's, 78h, as well as a Benge 175f, and a couple Conn SL2525 slides for use on 8h and 88h. I'd also consider 508-510 bore horns as mid-size. I've never been able to really fall in love with any 3b (or kings in general) I've played (which extends to 3b+ and the 607-609 models), and the Selmer Bolero w/F I owned was too much like my 79h to keep. I've seen a Reynolds 30-L (525), although I never played one. I tried a 525 Shires, and it was too much like a 547. Bach 36b can be a great horn.

Recently I've been looking at some other options like JPRath, Eastman, Wessex. Wessex 525 doesn't have a valve. Eastman and Yamaha 525s have an 8.5" bell, which generally gets away from the lighter feel/sound too much. The JP Rath 331 looks the most promising from this space, although I haven't had the opportunity to play one. I'd be grateful to anyone who owns or has played a 331 for comparisons to a common horn like a Bach 36b.

So what's wrong with a 36b or 79h? Nothing, really. I did play a Rath R3, and really loved the instrument. Ability to play soft was amazing. Modern valves just feel a lot better. Really loved the nickel silver bell. Can't justify throwing down the scratch for a new one. Plus, I'm just a junkie.

The goal if there really has to be one would be something that plays lighter than a 547 (88h, say) but more weighty and "orchestral" than a 6h. With a great slide, a 7.5-8" bell, and a solid rotor.
User avatar
Matt K
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Matt K » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:27 am

I know I've mentioned this to you previously, so this comment is more general for those who might be reading in the future:

I really like the YSL645/646s. Really solid horns but it's a second to the Shires, so obviously I have a tendency to like them a little larger. I had a really nice Shires 508/525 slide, but it was in gold brass and not 100% my cup of tea. If I had the money, I'd have a 508/525 in all nickel and a 7.75" 2RVET7 or 2RVET7 8 (8"). (I've only seen one sub 8" bell from Shires for their medium/large bore frames, and as far as I know it may be for sale still up in Canada somewhere).

I also have a Yamaha 645/882O slide (525/547) that I have a slight preference for over my 547 slide on my 8.5" bell (2RVET7) as well. But by my perception, my Shires doesn't feel much different from some of the 88s I've tired, just less "resistance" generally so that perception is not universal by any means. So the slightly smaller 525 upper leg gives me what I'd describe as a slightly lighter 547 but it's a lot more weighty than any 6H I've tried!

I can't compare directly to a Bach 36 since it's been quite some time since I've played any, but I have played the medium bore JP Rath and I thoroughly liked it. I know someone who had a valve fully corrode in very short order on one but I don't know the full story and by all other accounts, I've only heard generally positive things about them so I don't know exactly what to think about that. The one I played had an exceedingly focused sound for the size (sort of the opposite of Shires/Edwards which I tend to agree play a little "larger" than other horns of a similar size).
User avatar
Neo Bri
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:30 am
Location: Netherwhere
Contact:

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Neo Bri » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:36 am

I've always got on well with Bach 36Bs and Yamaha 645s. Very different - the Bach is much heavier, meatier. The yamaha has a really broad range of sounds over less dynamic volume. In other words, the Yamaha is more excitable.

I also have a Rath R3, but I need another leadpipe for it. I'm using a large-shank pipe and it plays maybe a bit too close to a .547".
________________________________________________________
Get the word out! Make www.trombonechat.com our community!
bimmerman
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by bimmerman » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:56 am

I bought a used Edwards T327 recently. It's their .525 model.

I haven't yet come to terms with it. It feels far stuffier above the F above middle C than either my 16M or my .547 Edwards, pretty much regardless of leadpipe even. I'm tempted to try different components but....that's $$$$. I like the sound I get out of it; it feels great up to F but then feels like there aren't any notes above it without exerting significantly more effort for much less sound. It's weird and I haven't figured it out.

The best medium bore horn I have ever played (not a long list, tbh) was my dad's NY67 Bach 36, which he bought used when he was in high school. I'm tempted to ask to borrow it.
User avatar
FeelMyRath
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by FeelMyRath » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:14 pm

Yamaha 356G. I had one for years before getting my Rath and it was a horn for every setting - just change rim size and cup depth and you're away. 0.500-0.525 dual bore, nickle side, 8" good brass bell... awesome for the money.
Making the world better, one note at a time

Yorkshire, United Kingdom
User avatar
Matt K
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Matt K » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 pm

FeelMyRath wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:14 pm
Yamaha 356G. I had one for years before getting my Rath and it was a horn for every setting - just change rim size and cup depth and you're away. 0.500-0.525 dual bore, nickle side, 8" good brass bell... awesome for the money.
Also a good recommendation. I had one that I really liked. If it would have been basically a 354 with a valve I'd probably still have one simply because I have a medium bore that I like but I'd love to have a truly small bore F attachment.

I didn't know they had nickel slides though. I think mine was yellow brass but it's been a few years since I've seen one.
bimmerman
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by bimmerman » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:26 pm

I had a 356R that I foolishly sold once I was through high school. I forgot about that horn, it was great! It'd be perfect for what I'm using the Edwards for....time to go to ebay again.
User avatar
FeelMyRath
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by FeelMyRath » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:27 pm

The European model 356G has a gold brass bell and nickle slide, I think you guys have the 356R with red brass bell and yellow brass slide.
Making the world better, one note at a time

Yorkshire, United Kingdom
hyperbolica
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by hyperbolica » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:04 pm

FeelMyRath wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:14 pm
Yamaha 356G. I had one for years before getting my Rath and it was a horn for every setting - just change rim size and cup depth and you're away. 0.500-0.525 dual bore, nickle side, 8" good brass bell... awesome for the money.
I've found the sound of the Yamaha 691 and 651 to be a little one-dimensional. It has turned me off to Yamahas in general. Although I like the basses.

Also, I played a Kanstul 760 w/F for a while and found it annoyingly bright. I really wanted to love that horn. I got it for a bargain, but after playing it, I understood why. So I'm a little shy to try the Yammie 356.
User avatar
FeelMyRath
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by FeelMyRath » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:36 pm

I suppose it all depends on the player. I've got a naturally warm, round sound (I think it tends to get refered to as dark in the US), so I need instruments that can help me brighten up my sound (it probably comes from trying to make the 356 sound big and round for so many years). My R4F is set up to brighten up my tone, probably due to the playing style I got into on the Yammie. Perhaps you're the opposite?
Making the world better, one note at a time

Yorkshire, United Kingdom
hyperbolica
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by hyperbolica » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:21 pm

We overlooked Olds horns. What about an Olds Recording, Radio, L8?
User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by JohnL » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:41 pm

hyperbolica wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:21 pm
We overlooked Olds horns. What about an Olds Recording, Radio, L8?
The Recording (.495"/.510") and the Radio (.485"/.500") aren't really "mid-sized" horns. L's are rare enough that I'm not comfortable giving a definitive bore size, but I think they were probably .510"/.530" or .510"/.535"; LLM's seem to have been .500"/.525" or thereabouts - but they're also really rare.

One project I've had in mind for a while is to have a single-bore .525" slide for a Recording, just to see how it plays. It's just there's always something else to be done, and I try to stick with a "one project at a time" policy.
salsabone
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:38 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by salsabone » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:22 pm

If you did not like the Kanstul as it was too bright!, look for an older Reynolds Comtempora .520 bore with an F-Attch. You know that I have experience on both of them!! This might just be the vintage sound profile that you are looking for.
Kevin
hyperbolica
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by hyperbolica » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:43 am

salsabone wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:22 pm
If you did not like the Kanstul as it was too bright!, look for an older Reynolds Comtempora .520 bore with an F-Attch. You know that I have experience on both of them!! This might just be the vintage sound profile that you are looking for.
Kevin
Is that the 30L? I've seen a couple straight ones recently, but no F attachment. You know where I might find one?
greenbean
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by greenbean » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:06 pm

I think the Yam 446 is 95% as good as the 646 or 684... Can be a bargain.
djkennedy
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:16 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by djkennedy » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:22 pm

these 356 and no fatt are great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


FeelMyRath wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:14 pm
Yamaha 356G. I had one for years before getting my Rath and it was a horn for every setting - just change rim size and cup depth and you're away. 0.500-0.525 dual bore, nickle side, 8" good brass bell... awesome for the money.
djkennedy
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:16 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by djkennedy » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:34 pm

bach 36 --ny # 1500 very very light ///lt 36go ---yeah w a 4 mpc /// straight lt36g !
my favorite is a medium goldilocks --does everything !!!!!!!! super slide -ez to play
dark dark dark chocolates usually in the 18-22000 range --just the lushest sound however
can be hard to push and the stubbornestbachiest of all
----------------------
totally ugly 36b that run like a horse let loose --the harder you play them the more they like it
-------------------
took 2 36s to play nutcracker on for soft one for fuller
---------------------------
3b+ the first gen --some have great flex --much favored for doing musicals //pit
-----------------
m 40 paris --not enough sampled
--------
courtois ---same
-------
78h --personality --subtle
----------
oh besson 1010 wild !!!!!!!!
------------
need a nap now
cozzagiorgi
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by cozzagiorgi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:15 am

Yammie 645 ysl anyone?
User avatar
Matt K
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Matt K » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:44 am

cozzagiorgi wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:15 am
Yammie 645 ysl anyone?
My 2nd favorite medium bore, only behind the Shires I have!
cozzagiorgi
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by cozzagiorgi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:58 am

Yeah its a great horn! I played everything on it from symphonic to band to jazz to reaggae... very versatile!
greenbean
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by greenbean » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:11 am

The 646 would be the comparable F-att model.
cozzagiorgi
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by cozzagiorgi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:39 am

greenbean wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:11 am
The 646 would be the comparable F-att model.
Exactly. Both horns can be found used at very reasonable prices.
afugate
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:47 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by afugate » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:16 am

Neo Bri wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:36 am
<snip>... The yamaha (645) has a really broad range of sounds over less dynamic volume. In other words, the Yamaha is more excitable.
I find this to be true for my Yamaha 645. Its my "go to" horn. I love it! Smokey when I want it and sizzling like a laser when I need it to cut.

--Andy in OKC
User avatar
Neo Bri
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:30 am
Location: Netherwhere
Contact:

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Neo Bri » Fri May 11, 2018 12:14 pm

FeelMyRath wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:27 pm
The European model 356G has a gold brass bell and nickle slide, I think you guys have the 356R with red brass bell and yellow brass slide.
What is the typical price these fetch? I've never played one but they sound interesting.
________________________________________________________
Get the word out! Make www.trombonechat.com our community!
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Burgerbob » Fri May 11, 2018 12:52 pm

The 36 was developed as an orchestral horn, and those bones really show. After all, the 42 is only different in the bell diameter and slide!

That said, I love a good 36 and they are some of the best balanced horns out there.
Bass Trombone
DL Band
SLO Symphony
User avatar
Matt K
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by Matt K » Fri May 11, 2018 1:33 pm

Neo Bri wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:14 pm
FeelMyRath wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:27 pm
The European model 356G has a gold brass bell and nickle slide, I think you guys have the 356R with red brass bell and yellow brass slide.
What is the typical price these fetch? I've never played one but they sound interesting.
$650-900 from what I've seen.
User avatar
dukesboneman
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:40 pm
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Contact:

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by dukesboneman » Fri May 11, 2018 9:30 pm

I love my Bach 16MG with an H8 leadpipe. Good dark sound and with the H8 pipe it opens up the horn , makes it slot better and a much more solid upper range. I played 78H`s and 36 `s for years they are great solid horns
johnnymack
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:48 am

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by johnnymack » Tue May 15, 2018 1:49 pm

I have a Williams 8 with an additional 6 bell section - .520 bore
The slide for the 6 and 8 are interchangeable
4 Leadpipes: Herrick #2 , Williams - Burbank ,2 Williams Tulsa Models
This is my "Go TO'' Commercial Horn

TheReynolds 30-L and early Argenta's are good too..520 bores. I definitely recommend pulling the leadpipes.
The bells are a bit longer which for me messes with positions
Pre WWII Conn 32H's 500/522 bore and 78h's from same era
AS good as the NY and Mt Vernon Bachs IMHO
The 32H has such a narrow slide I can only get 2 of My Shrekish fingers in too hold it
I had a 69 Elkhart 78H It didn't hold together at loud volumes very well
King 2125 and 2125/ 3B+ Good Comercial Horns
Yam 356G 500/525 I Believe the 356R is a straight 500 bore
Not a fan of F attachment on these size Trbs(525 bore and smaller)
Probably because I am Primarily a Bass Trombonist
Not a BIg Yam Fan
Benge 175F would like better w/out the F attach.
Looking forward to playing a Rath R3 someday. The Rath's I have played(R4, R9) did not give me much feedback from a players perspective. I liked what I heard resonating in the halls I played them in.
Shires 508/525, 525 and 525/547 Really Good Horns I kept my 525/547 Trad wt standard slide 5ym bell and ys tuning slide
Bach 36 I've had a few .. Yet a Few too Many. I ve played some Really Nice ones but never Owned a Really Nice one. I even played some Mt Vernons that were just.... Ehh! Not a fan of the Nickel silver slides for these Trbs. I also prefer more modern leadpipes on these and the vintage hons I mentioned except the Kings
1929-30 Bach 35S A 525 bore... but tuning slide and bell Taper were smaller than a 36. THis was a great Horn but a bit of a Tank.A very thick gauge . It had a great LOUD Volume but in my opinion softer volumes suffered.
Lawler Big Boy .525 bore I never played one. I had the 508 bore s/n #003. It had a very large presence of sound
but was not as focused as a Bach LT 16M or 3B Silver Sonic I had at the time
Kanstul 500/530 bore It felt very small to me
Amrein-- I understand these are supposed to be vey good
btone
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 am
Location: MS
Contact:

Re: Opinions on best mid-size trombone

Post by btone » Thu May 17, 2018 9:19 am

For a long time I was looking for a 525 bore that would do everything. Never really found that. I am still a fan of the 36B and the Conn medium bores, including those made after the Elkhart years. If you can find one they can be a really nice bargain. They play very well and easy but don't have as much weight to the sound as the 36 does. They are however very lightweight and nimble. I have a 1926 Conn 78h in all red brass and it is a killer horn. I also have a 1958 Mount Vernon 36 that sounds incredible, really stunning in front of the bell. Of course since I was looking for a horn with a valve I never found one that plays and sounds on the level of those two horns but have used a 36B and a Conn 75H (circa 1980, 8.5" red brass bell) for many applications where I didn't want to use a large tenor over the years.
Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”