Q Series Shires Bass

[Wayne]

I’ve been thinking of getting a bass trombone. The horn available to try today was a Shires STBQ36GR (duel regular rotors, 9.5 inch gold brass bell) and, yes, it was a little easier to play from the middle of the staff down, but I didn’t sound how I picture a bass trombone to sound. I used a Bach1 1/2 GM mouthpiece, so pretty big. I recorded a bit and listened back and it sounded like I do on my 508 or 547 horns. The Shires plays very easy. Nothing is hard to do, and the sound stays very even everywhere on the horn, but is it a usual experience for a Q series to just sound like a “trombone” rather than a “link to the tuba trombone”?

Aside from not having any of that darkness or rounded sound I want, the only thing I didn’t like was that I could make the horn crackle pretty easily playing funky jazz bass lines. And not that good bass trombone bite, just a messy crackle.

If I get hold of a 10 inch belled Bach could I expect a better experience?

[hyperbolica]

It really SHOULD sound and feel like a trombone. I'm kind of surprised if that's what's actually happening. The real test is what's happening in your target range, down low. Under the staff, can you control that crackle? Do you think you can practice and get control of it? The 1.5g size is usually said to be "average", but most people play something a little larger, although that's kind of a route that causes people a lot of problems later. Try something no bigger than 1.25 size equivalent. I love my Curry 2D. You have to spend some time with the equipment to really understand how you work together.

Your opinion should be based on playing more than just one horn. Definitely try a Bach 50 of some sort. Also a Conn 62HI, and whatever else you can find, like a King 6b, 7b, 8b, a used Shires custom, Conn 73h, Holton 181, Benge 290, some people like Yamahas, which will probably be the most abundant. If you just get distracted by only new horns, you're going to miss a whole range of options.

I think a 10 bell is just too unwieldy, heavy, hard to see around, easy to damage, and overall just unnecessary without having a real positive advantage. Definitely broaden your search, and spend as much time as you can with different models.

[Finetales]

1) 1-1/2GM is on the small side of bass trombone mouthpieces.
2) Bass trombone is supposed to sound like a trombone, not halfway between a tenor trombone and a tuba. For that you'll want a cimbasso with a tuba mouthpiece, or if you really must, a Bb contrabass trombone.
3) Size of the bell has little to do with how dark your sound is, especially on a Bach where the taper/throat is the same no matter what the diameter of the flare is.
4) If you want a very dark bass trombone sound, it's more about the mouthpiece and the approach than the instrument. Listen to American Brass Quintet recordings for how dark you can make a stock Bach sound. (He did use an L bell, but that's not why he sounded the way he did.) A Shires Q bass is pretty middle of the road, it's not an extra-bright commercial bass or anything.

[Kevbach33]

Try a bigger mouthpiece first. Maybe not 1G or Schilke 60 sizes, but even a piece in the 1¼G range can help get the sound you're expecting, or at least be a step in the right direction. I could get a proper broad or biting sound on a Q36GA (same as your trial bone, but with axial flow valves) using a Jeff Reynolds L. As @Finetales said, it's a very flexible model that can do orchestral or big band sounds just fine, depending on your approach.

A Bach 1½GM really isn't that big of a bass bone mouthpiece, but rather medium sized. Small, even.

I also like the suggestion of trying more horns, as many as you can, not just specifically a Bach 50BL or the Shires in question.

[Wayne]

I guess the mouthpiece maybe a problem. It’s a half millimeter smaller diameter rim than a 1.25 mentioned above…. I think the quite open throat on the GM makes it feel bigger. I had a 1 1/4 that was stolen, but when I needed a piece for a next day situation, the store only had the 1.5. It made my duel bore Edward’s sound bassy enough at the time so I didn’t replace it.

But glad to have checked in. I haven’t played on a bass since 1992, so I have nothing to compare to.

[Elow]

Double check that the leadpipe is in fact a bass trombone leadpipe. I had a friend who ordered a custom and it came with 3 tenor leadpipes. Spent a year taking lessons and worrying about his sound, getting denied competitions and everything. Turns out he had tenor leadpipes in, shit happens and a tenor leadpipe can most definitely make you sound bad on bass.

[Posaunus]

As I recall, the Bach 1-1/2GM mouthpiece has a very large throat compared to a regular 1-1/2G.
I find the GM piece a bit unbalanced.
But I'm only a doubler, not a "real" bass trombonist.

[musicofnote]

I've been playing the Shires Q36GR for almost 2 years. When I bought it, I compared it to a Shires Custom and two Yamaha 835 and 835GD. The Custom played like it had a wet towel over the bell. Stuffy and no sense of projection,. The Yamaha 835 was shrill sounding to me, and both Yamahas while even in response from pedal range, closed up on me starting first space f treble clef. The Q36GR was even sounding and responding from pedal e-flat up to c third space treble. The slide was "iffy", so the tech worked on it and ... it was "ok" for 8-9 months, needing cleaning and lubricating every 4-5 days. Only Yamaha lubricant, no water. Now after almost 2 years, the slide is as good as my Yamaha 822g slide was. The valves are also "finicky". If I leave the horn out unplayed for 2 days, they freeze. Or if in the case for 2 weeks they also freeze. Takes about 10 minutes to free them, but then they're ok. Going to get it cleaned in May or June and get softer valve bumpers put on - they are a little noisy.

When I tried the horns. I tried them all on my:
Wedge 110 large bore (my then daily driver)
Wedge s59
Greg Black 1.5G medium
Greg Black 1.7/16G medium
Griego Markey 85
Griego Markey 87 (my daily driver)

And I ordered a Brad Close MV50 seamed copper lead pipe that is pricey, but put the crowning touch on it all.

Works fine on all of them. Better on the Markey 87 and GB 1 7/16. Going to try a GB 1 5/16 for yucks.

Very pleased and satisfied with the horn. Works for everything from Baroque Cello Sonatas through solo literature Like Raum, Ledbedev, Lieb etc and orchestral stuff. The Markey 87 really shines with Bruckner/Mahler.

[Wayne]

Your comments on the shires reflect my impressions. The horn was reliable in all registers and the basic sound was pleasing. I didn’t love the slide or valves, but chalked that up to the horn having lived in a box for who knows how long after its last test play. If I could have generated the sound I’m looking for and not had the dynamic control issues I would have considered denting my credit card yesterday. Before I try another horn I’ll grab a new 1 1/4. That worked well for me in the past.

[WGWTR180]

Your comments on the shires reflect my impressions. The horn was reliable in all registers and the basic sound was pleasing. I didn’t love the slide or valves, but chalked that up to the horn having lived in a box for who knows how long after its last test play. If I could have generated the sound I’m looking for and not had the dynamic control issues I would have considered denting my credit card yesterday. Before I try another horn I’ll grab a new 1 1/4. That worked well for me in the past.

Wayne are you new to bass trombone? I ask because if you are a bass trombone sound doesn't magically appear. You need to spend some time on an instrument and a mouthpiece to develop your sound. As someone who plays a MV 1 and 1/2G and has tried a Shires Q with rotors and a yellow bell I found the instrument easy to play yet I found the sound unappealing. Might that have changed over the course of time? Maybe but I've been playing bass for 40 years so..
I can also share that sometimes the 1 and 1/2G size piece doesn't work as well on modern instruments that are focus on the US market. They are all generally play tested by players who do play significantly larger mouthpieces. So you might find that the Shires Q will play better on a larger piece. But once again you'll need time with both. In the end if you feel more comfortable on the 1 and 1/2GM then stick to that and find another instrument. There's nothing wrong with that mouthpiece and, in the end, it's your choice.
Good luck.

[Fridge]

I play a Q SERIES. Actually sold my Greenhoe to get the Shires. I have the rotax valves. My horn plays great. Mt V 1.5 and a stock #1 pipe. No issues at all. The 1.5 is fine. Sitting in a practice chair works the best.

Fridge.

[Trombola2112]

I've been playing a Q series (rotors and gold bell) for a few years now. Mine plays well with a Schilke 58 and currently a 2.5 pipe. Recently been trying a Schilke 59 since it let's me sound closer to what's in my head and my chops can finally handle it. Definitely took time and practice to get the "bass" sound (at least my interpretation of it).

[Fruitysloth]

I bought a Q Series with axials and a yellow bell and LOVE it. As a tenor primary, it lets me ease into bass trombone a little easier than other horns. I started on a FAXX 1 1/2G, and it felt like the horn was too easily backed up. I switched to a Laskey 85MD and it SINGS. Try a slightly bigger mouthpiece and see if that changes things.

[Wayne]

I may go back after a while and try again. It’s just been my experience when I’ve played basses before, that there is a bit more difference in the sound from mid staff down than I was getting. I’ve not done a ton of it, but enough to know what I want.

I’ve got just over a year to pick out this retirement present to myself. This experience (and all the feedback) has been great to get me oriented as to things to think about.

[Thrawn22]

I've played A LOT of Q36s and all of the variations they're solid horns. But don't expect to get a bass sound right away. It'll take some practice.

And a 1.5 mpc is fine.