TromboneChat

I've recently started casually looking for a new horn after buying my current Shires setup about 15 years ago. I've been super surprised to see how many manufacturers are pushing screw bells, and in particular have been surprised to see people modifying their existing horns to screw bell.

Is this just the current version of 'added weight' that we have seen over the years in different guises - heavy bells, heavy slides, counter weights, Sauer braces etc. etc.

Or is there really something else to it?

Is it really just about having a very slightly flatter case? I doubt most people buying these horns are flying enough to matter...and we have all been flying for decades without screw bells.

Please enlighten me!

Some do it for travel convenience-easier getting that smaller case onto a plane. Most do it because it's trendy.

WGWTR180 wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 6:13 am Some do it for travel convenience-easier getting that smaller case onto a plane. Most do it because it's trendy.

It does help in projection to some extent, but I agree, it's just another thing to spend your parent's money on. Plus, it makes your horn front heavy and it just takes longer to put it together when you take it out of the case. I had one for a short time. Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

I’ve had about five different detachable flare horns over the past few years, from various brands and both factory and aftermarket. Each time, I’ve absolutely loved how small and light the case is (Not just for flying, but literally anytime the case is on my back). And each time, I’ve been so disappointed with how dead the bell feels to play on compared to an uncut counterpart. Granted, I personally struggle with blowing through super-heavy equipment, so that is personal preference.

WGWTR180 wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 6:13 am Some do it for travel convenience-easier getting that smaller case onto a plane. Most do it because it's trendy.

Boom.

We're herd creatures.

Is there a cheaper professional instrument than a trombone? We have the relative luxury that our little experiments aren't that expensive compared to other instruments, and any more, there is a ready secondary market for our failed experiments that proves PT Barnum was right.

JTeagarden wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 7:47 am Is there a cheaper professional instrument than a trombone? We have the relative luxury that our little experiments aren't that expensive compared to other instruments, and any more, there is a ready secondary market for our failed experiments that proves PT Barnum was right.

Cheap or not still spending money that I can use on my Miata instead.

I mean, it's not like screw bells on trombones are new, though the early examples I've seen were all so two flares could be connected to a single spout. For decades they were really only popular with French horn, where they give a substantial space saving in terms of transport. With a trombone, you get a case that is a little thinner, but the bell section itself only is a few inches shorter, and the slide is still just as long, so you only really end up with a case that can possibly fit as a carry-on instead of checked luggage.

I don't have any screw bell trombones, and don't have any plans to get them. I've tried those tone thingies on the bell, and yes there is a difference in feel, but I don't know whether it produces any real difference on the other side of the bell, at least for me. As with everything YMMV.

I don't travel much, so the small amount of space saving on a case isn't a huge benefit to me. I use screw bells because I consistently prefer the way they play compared to uncut bells. I find similar benefits with the Calder Pips tone halos, and other similar approaches.

For me it's the travel. It's not just a small difference. Not having the bell flare shape in the case makes a big difference in ease of carrying, and to airport gate agents it just looks like a viola case.

In terms of playing characteristics, I'm sure it depends on the particular model. On the Y-Fort, having tried both, it didn't feel like the screw bell made that big a difference, at least from behind the bell. There was less difference to me between conventional and screw-bell versions of the horn than between the yellow and gold brass versions, for instance. My feeling, at least from behind the bell, is the screw-bell feels slightly less spread and more focused and compact.

If travel is not a concern, I would choose whichever horn plays best, I don't really care about trends. But the horn fitting in such a small case is a huge benefit if you travel with it even just a little bit.

It's hardly a new technique, although perhaps more popular now.
Stu Dempster had one of these. https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn62H1921image.html

The flat MB case fits in all overheads. I can put the horn in front of two suitcases in the overhead and then close it. I did a tour where I flew around the US with a Xeno trombone case in December. Did I get it in all the planes just fine? Yes. Did one flight require a little schmoozing? Yes. Do I just want to get on the plane and fall asleep? Yes. Thank God for Screw Bell trombones. The collars make Yamaha trombones play better too which is a bonus.

If you just drive from A to B, or take the subway, you don’t need one. But most freelance trombonists these days gotta get on a plane to make some money. If that’s you, I highly recommend a screw bell section and a flat case (Gard makes a nice cheap one now).

sf105 wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 9:59 am It's hardly a new technique, although perhaps more popular now.
Stu Dempster had one of these. https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn62H1921image.html

It's interesting to recall that in the 1920s a 0.485" bore trombone was appropriate (preferred?) for orchestras.

In those days playing a 0.547" bore tenor as 1st trombone in an orchestra would have been ... disruptive?
An F-attachment on 1st - unthinkable!

Posaunus wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 10:24 amIt's interesting to recall that in the 1920s a 0.485" bore trombone was appropriate (preferred?) for orchestras.
ba
In those days playing a 0.547" bore tenor as 1st trombone in an orchestra would have been ... disruptive?
An F-attachment on 1st - unthinkable!

If memory serves, Dillon Music used to have a 62H like the one pictured on The Conn Loyalist (perhaps that exact instrument) along with a screw-bell 8H "special" with an f-attachment in a similar case with an 8" flare and an 8½" flare. I think they were both actually made for Gardell Simons during the era when modern "symphony bore" trombones were just starting to emerge.

JohnL wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:27 amIf memory serves, Dillon Music used to have a 62H like the one pictured on The Conn Loyalist (perhaps that exact instrument) along with a screw-bell 8H "special" with an f-attachment in a similar case with an 8" flare and an 8½" flare. I think they were both actually made for Gardell Simons during the era when modern "symphony bore" trombones were just starting to emerge.

They had that and I believe an 8H, both made for Gardell Simons. At least, I think they did.

Here's an 8H screwbell from the brass ark website: https://brassark.com/museum_horns/c-g-c ... ns-c-1920/

They were definitely tempting, just because at the time it was a really cool concept to me, and the fact that if I recall both had custom cases from Conn to hold the horn and both flares.

JohnL wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:27 am

Posaunus wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 10:24 amIt's interesting to recall that in the 1920s a 0.485" bore trombone was appropriate (preferred?) for orchestras.
ba
In those days playing a 0.547" bore tenor as 1st trombone in an orchestra would have been ... disruptive?
An F-attachment on 1st - unthinkable!

If memory serves, Dillon Music used to have a 62H like the one pictured on The Conn Loyalist (perhaps that exact instrument) along with a screw-bell 8H "special" with an f-attachment in a similar case with an 8" flare and an 8½" flare. I think they were both actually made for Gardell Simons during the era when modern "symphony bore" trombones were just starting to emerge.

That's a good point about flares. I do think there is some utility in the modularity that comes along with a screw bell. Flares stack pretty easily, so you could potentially carry multiple flares - different sizes, different materials, etc. - all in the same case footprint (albeit with a bit of added weight). One bell section with both an 8" flare and an 8.5" flare paired with either a .525 or .547 slide would offer most of the flexibility of two different horns with a lot less bulk to carry (I do wish there were more single-bell cases with multiple slide compartments).

Butler makes carbon flares with screw rings, which can be a great travel option (I use one when I travel). I believe O'Malley will make ad hoc flares (separate from a full bell with stem) with screw rings as well (great sterling 8" flare at Brass Ark: https://brassark.com/sale_horns/omalley ... ell-flare/). Lots of fun options, once you're already down the rabbit hole a bit

I think that with all of the screw connections on trombones, they actually don't play as well as a soldered-together horn. The bell and slide disassembling is one thing, but I don't think the other screw connections are as useful. Give me a real 8h any day.

JohnL wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:27 am

Posaunus wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 10:24 amIt's interesting to recall that in the 1920s a 0.485" bore trombone was appropriate (preferred?) for orchestras.

In those days playing a 0.547" bore tenor as 1st trombone in an orchestra would have been ... disruptive?
An F-attachment on 1st - unthinkable!

If memory serves, Dillon Music used to have a 62H like the one pictured on The Conn Loyalist (perhaps that exact instrument) along with a screw-bell 8H "special" with an f-attachment in a similar case with an 8" flare and an 8½" flare. I think they were both actually made for Gardell Simons during the era when modern "symphony bore" trombones were just starting to emerge.

Apparently Conn recycled the 62H model number from the "original" (1920) 0.485" bore "duo-bell" Simons model ... to the "reinstated" (1968) dual-valve 0.562" bore bass trombone. Rather different beasts, to say the least.

Gardell Simons [Philadelphia Orchestra 1918-1933, Cincinnati & Cleveland orchestras 1934-1938, NBC Symphony 1938-early 1940s, Curtis Institute faculty 1924-30] apparently switched from Conn to the H. N. White company in 1938, and died in 1945. Unlikely that he was involved in Conn's symphonic bass trombone development.

If Simons actually had an F-attachment 8H - where / when did he play it?

When I was doing Phantom I had a locker that would barely fit my Bona case with a lot of twisting and turning. Had I owned a cut bell bass and the matching case putting my instrument away would've been easy! But I didn't want to cut a vintage bell.

Posaunus wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 1:01 pmGardell Simons [Philadelphia Orchestra 1918-1933, Cincinnati & Cleveland orchestras 1934-1938, NBC Symphony 1938-early 1940s, Curtis Institute faculty 1924-30] apparently switched from Conn to the H. N. White company in 1938, and died in 1945. Unlikely that he was involved in Conn's symphonic bass trombone development.

If Simons actually had an F-attachment 8H - where / when did he play it?

The brass Ark write on that very 8H says that he designed the "62H" with Jay Burkle circa 1920. I would assume the "8H" was sometime around then. Noah may know more about it that is not in the "Museum" part of his website.

hyperbolica wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 12:43 pm I think that with all of the screw connections on trombones, they actually don't play as well as a soldered-together horn. The bell and slide disassembling is one thing, but I don't think the other screw connections are as useful. Give me a real 8h any day.

That's a question of preference, and also the type of screw connectors used. Less rigidity in the assembly can make a horn better or worse, depending on how it plays. I know when we developed my bass sackbut model with Egger, changing the bell section so that everything is friction fit and held with screws and pins, instead of everything soldered, made the horn about 10 times better. It went from I'd never buy that instrument to I might never buying anything else.

Hagmann has this "Vibrabell" design that is fantastic, where the bell is not soldered to the rest of the bell section, and has radial screws holding the braces together.

Posaunus wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 1:01 pm Apparently Conn recycled the 62H model number from the "original" (1920) 0.485" bore "duo-bell" Simons model ... to the "reinstated" (1968) dual-valve 0.562" bore bass trombone. Rather different beasts, to say the least.

Gardell Simons [Philadelphia Orchestra 1918-1933, Cincinnati & Cleveland orchestras 1934-1938, NBC Symphony 1938-early 1940s, Curtis Institute faculty 1924-30] apparently switched from Conn to the H. N. White company in 1938, and died in 1945. Unlikely that he was involved in Conn's symphonic bass trombone development.

If Simons actually had an F-attachment 8H - where / when did he play it?

I suspect Philadelphia, as that's where he was playing when the horn was made (Noah's page at BrassArk says it's circa 1920)

Here is the original listing on Dillon's website for both horns, courtesy The Wayback Machine

The thumbnail for the 8H is missing, but the larger image is still available.

Simons' 8H would have been a "Large Symphony"; somewhat different from the 8H "Artist Symphony" that was introduced in the 1950's. Things like f-attachments and screw bells would have been a special order, of course.

And in the interest of thoroughness, here is a page from the Wayback showing the Keefer Simons Model trombones that Dillon had many moons ago. The image of the straight tenor is available, but the image of the f-attachment tenor seems to have been lost.

According to BrassHistory.net, in 1926 (while he was with the Philadelphia Orchestra) "Simons started working with Brua Keefer to make the Simons model trombone & mouthpieces. These were a close copy of the Conns."
https://brasshistory.net/vhSimons.pdf

Can't help but wonder what (in 1926) was the incentive to build a custom (larger-bore?) F-attachment trombone with two different screw bells, when most were still playing smaller-bore, smaller-bell straight tenors. What trombone part did Simons play in Philadelphia? What repertoire would it have been used for? What did his section mates play? Did he stick with it in other orchestras or was it a transitory fling?

I'll never keep up with JohnL's memory and historical research! (But it's fun anyway.)

Simons was principal in Philadelphia; there seems to be some disagreement as to the years he was there; data from the now-defunct stokowski.org website (harvested from The Wayback Machine) indicates 1915-1930.

stokowski.org was a wonderful site...

Simons' main contemporaries would have been:
Charles Gerhard; bass trombonist 1900-1901, 1904-1909, 1922-1946 and second trombone 1921-1922.
Paul Lotz; principal 1900-1901, trombone (chair not specified) 1907-1909, bass trombone 1909-1922, and second trombone 1922-1945.
William Geffert; second trombone 1917-1921

pre 2001 I flew with my brown Bach stock hard case in the overheads...never had an issue. and for a few years I used a cronkhite.
After 2001 and after airlines started charging for checked bags, the whole process got a lot more fraught. For about 10 years I used a big SKB and checked that. Many pros during this period were checking golf cases with gig bags inside.
the big SKB was lost twice. Both times at JFK international terminal. Both times told it "was going right to the gate". Got it back but had to scrounge up other horns for tours. This was also before air tags.
Then I switched to screw bell and flat case.
The case options have improved but there's still some room to go...my 70s/80s Holton hard cases are really really flat. I think the new Gard gig bag is in the right direction.
The screw bell cases also fit in train and bus overheads.

To further derail this thread (sorry!) ... here's another interesting read:
https://www.curtis.edu/about/history/le ... -and-tuba/

My hot take is that most people don’t need a screwbell at all.

I took one on tour for half the time I was on the road. It made bus travel much easier and airplane travel slightly easier.

Some people like the ability to swap bell flare sizes and materials. Some people like the projection. I have personally preferred the way a Yamaha trombone responds after a screwbell conversion to before the bell cut. It may only be the way it sounds behind the bell but who knows.

I think a lot of it is snake oil and in many ways the proposed sonic benefits are outweighed by the altered weight distribution.

I feel like it is largely a trend that will pass into more of a secondary option from manufacturers than what seems to be a current standard for many professional horns.

I did not want a cut-bell horn. I also thought that it is an additional failure point, and cut bell cases are rarer and more expensive.

However, when I was in the market for a new horn, the cut bell version of the Yamaha YBL-835 plays much better than the uncut version, so I ended up buying the cut bell version. Trying the uncut bell versions again after that, I stand by my choice.

The irony is: I have never been able to travel with the horn as carry-on baggage. The slide exceed the allowed length even with cut-bell case.

Has anyone experimented with mixing different materials for bells/flairs (like a rose brass flair on a yellow brass bell stem)? Seems like it could be a cool customization option, I just don't know how big of a difference it makes compared to cutting the bell in the first place.

tkelley216 wrote: Fri Feb 27, 2026 12:51 am Has anyone experimented with mixing different materials for bells/flairs (like a rose brass flair on a yellow brass bell stem)? Seems like it could be a cool customization option, I just don't know how big of a difference it makes compared to cutting the bell in the first place.

shires has that option. there was a 2RGLW on Brass Exchange for the longest time which as red brass stem and gold brass flare and lightweight but was uncut. I believe quin's brass winds has a TII-GYLW which is their T2 taper (T1's arent marked i believe), gold brass stem and yellow brass flare and lightweight, but also uncut. I believe shires offers any combination of their stems and flares though usually by custom order only and rarely otherwise.

tkelley216 wrote: Fri Feb 27, 2026 12:51 am Has anyone experimented with mixing different materials for bells/flairs (like a rose brass flair on a yellow brass bell stem)? Seems like it could be a cool customization option, I just don't know how big of a difference it makes compared to cutting the bell in the first place.

I had a custom BAC I could do that with. Had a silver bell with 8” flare, plus an extra phosphor bronze 8.5” flare. The bronze projected WAY more and was perfect for brass band stuff. I also got a butler carbon fiber bell flare with it eventually, which made the horn feel much more nimble, and actually did wonders to balance out the physical weight of the horn, although it played just slightly more dull imo. (It had a little damage so that could have been the reason for the dullness. I know Dave does fantastic work and is always innovating to achieve maximum resonance and strength in his carbon fiber)

It was nice to have options, but since moving to horns with single bell/flare setups I haven’t felt that my versatility is stunted in any meaningful way.

I've flown with a trombone exactly once in my life, which is once more than a lot of very serious amateur and semi-pro players - and my instrument fit perfectly find inside the overhead compartment. There's no car trunk in the world that will fit a cut-bell case but won't fit a regular one. I think the portability advantage is a solution in search of a problem. Bear in mind I've never been fond of wearing backpack cases and don't live someplace where train and bus travel is the norm. I've yet to find a trombone that won't fit in the trunk of my Civic.

I've heard that for some instruments a cut-bell is a godsend that solidifies response, (particularly the new Xeno bass, I'd love to try one). I've also heard of cases where it ruins what would have been a decent instrument.

Least importantly, I think they completely ruin the aesthetics of the instrument.

nateaff wrote: Sat Feb 28, 2026 5:31 pm I've flown with a trombone exactly once in my life, which is once more than a lot of very serious amateur and semi-pro players - and my instrument fit perfectly find inside the overhead compartment. There's no car trunk in the world that will fit a cut-bell case but won't fit a regular one. I think the portability advantage is a solution in search of a problem. Bear in mind I've never been fond of wearing backpack cases and don't live someplace where train and bus travel is the norm. I've yet to find a trombone that won't fit in the trunk of my Civic.

As a professional trombonist who works in NYC, Nashville, and LA, while also touring all over the world, flying several times a month, every month, for the last three years with my horn, respectfully, you don’t know what you’re talking about xoxoxo

RJMason wrote: Sat Feb 28, 2026 5:45 pm

nateaff wrote: Sat Feb 28, 2026 5:31 pm I've flown with a trombone exactly once in my life, which is once more than a lot of very serious amateur and semi-pro players - and my instrument fit perfectly find inside the overhead compartment. There's no car trunk in the world that will fit a cut-bell case but won't fit a regular one. I think the portability advantage is a solution in search of a problem. Bear in mind I've never been fond of wearing backpack cases and don't live someplace where train and bus travel is the norm. I've yet to find a trombone that won't fit in the trunk of my Civic.

As a professional trombonist who works in NYC, Nashville, and LA, while also touring all over the world, flying several times a month, every month, for the last three years with my horn, respectfully, you don’t know what you’re talking about xoxoxo

I'm with Ray- I fly a ton and it's a massive help with flying. Both for fitting in all sizes of overheads and for just appearing smaller to gate crews- the Bona case is shaped enough like a viola case that you can just claim that if asked (literally did that this week). Got mine cut in 2017 and it's been the difference a number of times in getting it on the plane and in a small gap in the overhead. I'd have had to gate check a decent bit if I didn't have a cut bell. Also helps a ton on buses and trains where the overheads are often arbitrarily small.

On the car side, it actually comes in handy on tours when there's a ton of other gear in the trunk. Being able to fit in that tiny gap up too helps. It's a rare occurrence, but it does help make space for other stuff.


I got mine cut purely for ease of travel on my backup horn, but I found it improved it enough that it's just been my everyday horn since then (mostly just from solidifying the low range).

I definitely agree that students often just imitate what's trendy, but I can also see the logic, given that it's not that much of a price difference if you're buying a new horn, in students buying one. They don't know what their career will look like and they'll, hopefully, be taking a lot of auditions. And probably buying tickets on a student budget where that smaller case can help a lot.

nateaff wrote: Sat Feb 28, 2026 5:31 pm I've flown with a trombone exactly once in my life, which is once more than a lot of very serious amateur and semi-pro players - and my instrument fit perfectly find inside the overhead compartment. There's no car trunk in the world that will fit a cut-bell case but won't fit a regular one. I think the portability advantage is a solution in search of a problem. Bear in mind I've never been fond of wearing backpack cases and don't live someplace where train and bus travel is the norm. I've yet to find a trombone that won't fit in the trunk of my Civic.

Maybe it's a solution in search of a problem for you, but then if you don't have the problem, just don't buy the solution? Nobody is saying you need to buy one.

But not everyone is an amateur or semi-pro player who only plays in their area, and not the entire world is (North) American suburbia where one drives everywhere. Plenty of players of all levels in Europe are traveling around by train even for shorter distances, between towns, when they head out to rehearsal and home. Plenty of players in cities take buses and trams and subways daily with their instruments (including many university students). The compact case does make all of this more comfortable, even if not necessary per se. And then, plenty of professional, especially freelancers, need to fly all the time, and plenty of students go to university abroad or on the other side of the country, and need to fly home at least a couple times a year. A regular trombone case will not fit in every overhead compartment, and outside of the US, most airlines don't have any obligation to ever let you take a trombone on board, even if it does fit. The recent increase in availability of screw bell trombones and compact cases for them is a game-changer for a lot of people. There's a reason for that trend, and it's not just hype. There's a reason there are a bunch of guides online for how to fly with a trombone and minimize the risks of damage. There's a reason people frequently write here and on Facebook and Reddit and other forums, asking if it's possible to fly with a trombone, and how. Screw-bells solve all of that for many people. French horn players have done this for decades, and it certainly hasn't been just a short-lived hype.

It doesn't have to be for you. But I know when I decided to reacquire a modern trombone a few months back, having a detachable bell was a non-negotiable requirement in my search. Instruments either had to have it, or the cost of having it cut and of buying a screw-bell case had to be factored into the price comparison.

I do not care for the youtube "click bait" title of this thread.

"Hype" is certainly a perjorative in this context, implying lack of legitimate cause for the subject feature.

As far as "pushing"... if manufacturers were charging a "screw bell" premium larger than what I saw for getting a competent repair person to make the parts and do the work, I might accept that.

Instead I see the "big guys" making an OPTIONAL feature available.

If this forum is any indicator (and it is but only partially) we trombonists are an ungrateful lot.
Folks who make stuff for trombonists get accused of all kinds of profiteering and hype and pushing.

Trombone makers and repair people are making and selling to a relatively small market. Even with "modern" methods and tools there are STILL a huge number of artisan tasks.

I applaud the manufacturers who have made this feature available.
They make it less bothersome to manage a space-awkward instrument in our increasingly dense civilization.

I also applaud our brass technicians who have certainly NOT hyped or pushed a modification that is more difficult than it looks at first glance.

Typical older American plane Dutch high speed Train

standard case would not have fit in either situation.

tkelley216 wrote: Fri Feb 27, 2026 12:51 am Has anyone experimented with mixing different materials for bells/flairs (like a rose brass flair on a yellow brass bell stem)? Seems like it could be a cool customization option, I just don't know how big of a difference it makes compared to cutting the bell in the first place.

Roy Lawler made all of his small bore horns with screw bells. You could mix and match when ordering. I have a Lawler Model 2 with .022 thickness bell stem, with an 8" .025" yellow brass flare and a 7.75" 0.22 flare red brass. Changes the color and response, to the player anyway. Great horns.

boneagain wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2026 4:31 am I do not care for the youtube "click bait" title of this thread.

"Hype" is certainly a perjorative in this context, implying lack of legitimate cause for the subject feature.

Nah, it's hype. As someone who is involved in multiple areas of the music industry, this is definitely a hype driven movement. Popular / new / cool things sell. Just like scratch finishes, matte finishes, etc. Pretty much every musical instrument company in the world are still around because they sell things that are NOT needed, to people who don't really need them, myself included. I'm not a professional player, yet I would probably buy a house if I sold all of the trombones, electric guitars, electric basses, amps, etc.

The screwbell thing is a "current trend", and I've talked to people wanting to get their bells cut "because I've heard it makes it sound better". Just like the "tone tumors" and "resistance balancers" before. We've already seen clear evidence that screwbells on trombones have a very long history, but for some reason at present now they are becoming popular.

Click bait? Uhh no.

I had my (2nd) R10 made with a screw bell because I was going to be doing a lot of flying. When I talked to Mick about it, he said it really didn’t make any difference, but I found that it produced more core in the sound - which I liked. I then went ahead and had my large horn and bass cut. Happy with all of them.
I also had two flares made for my R10. 8” red and 7.5” yellow- these give me really different sonic options without but new bells, and allow me to mult on sessions without phasing. Added bonus, I can use the 8” on my R4. All good stuff for someone who does a lot of different kinds of playing.

When I visited the Thein workshop in Bremen, Herr Thein had a C-shaped screw bell fixture with felt on the inside that you could slide on to any bell and push down to the flare end to get a sense of what it would play like as a screw bell. It was a number of years ago and I don't remember exactly what it did, but I remember liking it. And when I ordered my Rath R4 I thought, "why not?," and ordered it with a screw bell. That extra little bit of weight on that spot does something special. Being able to travel with it in a flat case is a bonus.

bbocaner wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 9:25 am When I visited the Thein workshop in Bremen, Herr Thein had a C-shaped screw bell fixture with felt on the inside that you could slide on to any bell and push down to the flare end to get a sense of what it would play like as a screw bell. It was a number of years ago and I don't remember exactly what it did, but I remember liking it. And when I ordered my Rath R4 I thought, "why not?," and ordered it with a screw bell. That extra little bit of weight on that spot does something special. Being able to travel with it in a flat case is a bonus.

There are now I believe several companies making rings of that sort for trombones, and there already were some being made for trumpets. I also recall seeing lots of rings to go around the mouthpiece or mouthpiece receiver to "intensify" sound. I don't know however how much actually can be heard out the other end. Is it a sound thing, or a response thing?

tbonesullivan wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 8:00 am

boneagain wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2026 4:31 am I do not care for the youtube "click bait" title of this thread.

"Hype" is certainly a perjorative in this context, implying lack of legitimate cause for the subject feature.

Nah, it's hype. As someone who is involved in multiple areas of the music industry, this is definitely a hype driven movement. Popular / new / cool things sell. Just like scratch finishes, matte finishes, etc. Pretty much every musical instrument company in the world are still around because they sell things that are NOT needed, to people who don't really need them, myself included. I'm not a professional player, yet I would probably buy a house if I sold all of the trombones, electric guitars, electric basses, amps, etc.

The screwbell thing is a "current trend", and I've talked to people wanting to get their bells cut "because I've heard it makes it sound better". Just like the "tone tumors" and "resistance balancers" before. We've already seen clear evidence that screwbells on trombones have a very long history, but for some reason at present now they are becoming popular.

I'm sure there's some of that. Herd creatures and all. But also I would not underestimate the just plainly obvious benefit of ease of travel, especially among professionals and aspiring professionals (i.e. students, and especially students who go study abroad). I think that need for ease of travel was there before, but there were two major roadblocks for screw-bells to take off. One was that virtually no maker made them unless maybe as custom orders, and having it done by a tech on an existing bell was seen as a gamble not worth even considering, and the other was that even with a cut bell, cases for them were not common, again requiring custom work.

I think a few years ago we hit the critical mass of it being common enough for cases to be more widely available, and for makers to notice and to start offering it as a stock option (meaning people can now try it without risking ruining an instrument). This removed both roadblocks for a pretty obvious and logical development that a lot of people would have already been interested in before had the option been there.

dembones wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2026 10:50 am Roy Lawler made all of his small bore horns with screw bells. You could mix and match when ordering. I have a Lawler Model 2 with .022 thickness bell stem, with an 8" .025" yellow brass flare and a 7.75" 0.22 flare red brass. Changes the color and response, to the player anyway. Great horns.

I'm with you! Roy did make earlier models without the flare system, but all of his horns from 2016-2021 have it. If anything, the I think the ring helps rein in the horn at higher volumes. My Model 1 (.025 yellow stem, all nickel .500 slide) is super versatile with the 8' bronze flare, but I have two others as well - silverplated yellow .22 unsoldered w Bach bead & .025 yellow soldered Bach bead. I don't think there's a player on earth who would call my horn "dead"! And nobody has a more compact case either!!

P.S. Did you buy that 7 3/4.022 red from me? I sold one a few years back...

tbonesullivan wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 8:00 am

boneagain wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2026 4:31 am I do not care for the youtube "click bait" title of this thread.

"Hype" is certainly a perjorative in this context, implying lack of legitimate cause for the subject feature.

Nah, it's hype. As someone who is involved in multiple areas of the music industry, this is definitely a hype driven movement. Popular / new / cool things sell. Just like scratch finishes, matte finishes, etc. Pretty much every musical instrument company in the world are still around because they sell things that are NOT needed, to people who don't really need them, myself included. I'm not a professional player, yet I would probably buy a house if I sold all of the trombones, electric guitars, electric basses, amps, etc.

The screwbell thing is a "current trend", and I've talked to people wanting to get their bells cut "because I've heard it makes it sound better". Just like the "tone tumors" and "resistance balancers" before. We've already seen clear evidence that screwbells on trombones have a very long history, but for some reason at present now they are becoming popular.

You are 100% wrong on this. Travel is easier, as others have said here, in every conceivable way. One of the surprise benefits for me was when I’m sharing a ride and packing tons of gear in the car a rectangular case is much easier to tetris in.

I don’t see this being related to any of the other trends you mentioned - it is purely functional for a traveling musician.

DaveAshley wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 12:55 pm

dembones wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2026 10:50 am Roy Lawler made all of his small bore horns with screw bells. You could mix and match when ordering. I have a Lawler Model 2 with .022 thickness bell stem, with an 8" .025" yellow brass flare and a 7.75" 0.22 flare red brass. Changes the color and response, to the player anyway. Great horns.

I'm with you! Roy did make earlier models without the flare system, but all of his horns from 2016-2021 have it. If anything, the I think the ring helps rein in the horn at higher volumes. My Model 1 (.025 yellow stem, all nickel .500 slide) is super versatile with the 8' bronze flare, but I have two others as well - silverplated yellow .22 unsoldered w Bach bead & .025 yellow soldered Bach bead. I don't think there's a player on earth who would call my horn "dead"! And nobody has a more compact case either!!

P.S. Did you buy that 7 3/4.022 red from me? I sold one a few years back...

I got my flares from Roy.

And yeah I have the little case that looks like a pool cue case, crazy small. Not a lot of protection though. I have two of his slides, one of them with a carbon fiber outer. I've flown with that case, betting that the CF slide would make it fairly safe. No problem at all. Talk about easy travel, nobody at boarding gave it a second look. Gard is now making a case like that which is probably better protection.

Yup while I no longer have the trombone, I have a Lawler pool cue case still. I currently keep extra slides in it but I flew around the world with a trombone in that thing one spring (also with a butler outer slide) So easy. A lot of regional economy planes see a trombone case and immediately make you check it. With the pool cue I just put it in a hikers backpack and no one said a thing. Real world practical application, not just hype.

tbonesullivan wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 10:42 am I don't know however how much actually can be heard out the other end. Is it a sound thing, or a response thing?

It would have been mainly feel as I'm sure any changes to sound would have been too subtle to hear without a helper there.

French horn players have been playing cut bells all over the world for 30+ years, it's amazing to me that anybody thinks cut bells are just "hype".

tbonesullivan wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 8:00 am The screwbell thing is a "current trend", and I've talked to people wanting to get their bells cut "because I've heard it makes it sound better". Just like the "tone tumors" and "resistance balancers" before. We've already seen clear evidence that screwbells on trombones have a very long history, but for some reason at present now they are becoming popular.

"For some reason"? They're becoming popular because players can now just buy them instead of having to get an existing bell cut, and you can buy a screw bell case instead of having to get a case custom made. At the end of the day most trombonists don't care to cut a horn up or get a custom case made, so of course they're going to start buying them when they can order a trombone with a cut bell and a matching case as easily as they can order a mouthpiece.

It's literally just availability and convenience. It's not some fleeting trend. Sure some players might want a cut bell just because it's the "cool thing", but people do that with literally everything. They did that with open wraps and axials too and last I checked those are still around.