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Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:03 pm
by dukesboneman
I have an Instrument Innovations rotor valve on my 42BO . It really improved the "F" register on the horn
Does anyone have experience with putting the Bass Rotors on a Bach 50B3?
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:18 pm
by Burgerbob
It'll be better but it'll need basically a whole new wrap. Can't fit in the old one with the different size valves.
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:55 pm
by JTeagarden
dukesboneman wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:03 pm
I have an Instrument Innovations rotor valve on my 42BO . It really improved the "F" register on the horn
Does anyone have experience with putting the Bass Rotors on a Bach 50B3?
In fact, my Bach 50 (early 70s Corporation with dependent valves) came back just today, it plays very well with the Instrument Innovations rotary valves, I can highly recommend them.
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2025 10:08 am
by Kbiggs
I had Instrument Innovations rotors put on my Bach 50 several years ago. I like the way it plays better than any other setup I’ve had with that horn. Ditto with my 42.
A tech might be able to re-use some of the existing valve tubing. When I first started playing around with my 50, I asked John Sandhagen to take the parts of two different horns and make one open-wrapped section. Later, when Graham Middleton installed the Instrument Innovations valves, he re-jiggered the tubing to fit the valves.
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2025 8:16 pm
by mattbone
Speaking of the valve on a 42, has there been a case where more tubing has been needed for a 42B or does the valve fit nicely with the wrap?
I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on putting the valve on my own 42B or doing the Dana Hofer valve mod.
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2025 8:38 pm
by Burgerbob
Olsen valve can fit in the closed wrap, but it has to be rejiggered to a degree. It's not plug and play.
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2025 6:57 am
by Bonearzt
dukesboneman wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:03 pm
I have an Instrument Innovations rotor valve on my 42BO . It really improved the "F" register on the horn
Does anyone have experience with putting the Bass Rotors on a Bach 50B3?
They will most definitely be an improvement.
But quite a bit of improvement will also come from rebuilding the valve section while installing the valves!
Reassembling the valve section tubing will ensure no tension, tightly fitting and correctly soldered joints and possibly repositioned bracing.
All contributing to a great playing horn!
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2025 10:46 pm
by TomInME
If you don't want to make the investment in a nearly-completely rebuilt instrument, there is the option of 3d-printed metal rotors for a much smaller price (and shorter time). It's a world of difference from the stock rotors (as are the Innovations, I imagine).
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2025 7:37 am
by WGWTR180
TomInME wrote: Sun Aug 31, 2025 10:46 pm
If you don't want to make the investment in a nearly-completely rebuilt instrument, there is the option of 3d-printed metal rotors for a much smaller price (and shorter time). It's a world of difference from the stock rotors (as are the Innovations, I imagine).
Do you mean rotor cores or complete rotary valves?
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2025 8:18 pm
by TomInME
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 6:56 am
by WGWTR180
Thanks for clarifying. I did this with very good success. Pete was great to work with!
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 8:18 am
by pfrancis
Continuing slightly off topic: Has anyone who has these new cores had them tested for compression? Are the old cores still able to be used or do the casing get lapped to fit the replacements? Cost?
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 1:35 pm
by peteedwards
I dont have a magnahelic, but all valves pass the "pop" test.
I try to do as minimal lapping as possible unless the original valves are worn too much. Generally speaking if the originals were in good shape they should still work OK if you put them back in, maybe slightly leakier.
email me for pricing.
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2025 12:34 pm
by TomInME
You won't want the old cores except as a novelty, although I understand the concern. If needed, a tech can drop them back in pretty easily - the lapping is minimal so there isn't that much difference.
The new ones appear to be vented to some degree, so they don't "THUMP!" like the originals did - but they do seal. This might be using more air on heavily valve-y sections, but the clearer path means more efficiency when holding notes. I feel like it's easier to "blow through the valve" when doing runs and just let the finger-flick change the note, while with the old cores, the sound didn't center fast enough and I just got valve noise instead of notes.
I got a lot more core in my sound so everything was darker, but a nickel-silver leadpipe did a lot to offset that. If you're already on the dark side, be prepared for that.
You'll have to dm Pete for current prices, but it's waaaay easier/cheaper to swap out cores than to unsolder/resolder everything. Even with multiple shipments back & forth and some fine-tuning by a tech (mine was one of the first, so there were some kinks), it was less than 1/3 the cost of an Innovations setup. And worth every penny - I'm surprised more older-horn owners haven't been leaping at this (especially for Bach basses). It's a big difference on the open side of the horn too.
Thanks again, Pete!
Re: Instrument Innovations Valve question
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2025 2:11 pm
by WGWTR180
TomInME wrote: Mon Sep 08, 2025 12:34 pm
You won't want the old cores except as a novelty, although I understand the concern. If needed, a tech can drop them back in pretty easily - the lapping is minimal so there isn't that much difference.
The new ones appear to be vented to some degree, so they don't "THUMP!" like the originals did - but they do seal. This might be using more air on heavily valve-y sections, but the clearer path means more efficiency when holding notes. I feel like it's easier to "blow through the valve" when doing runs and just let the finger-flick change the note, while with the old cores, the sound didn't center fast enough and I just got valve noise instead of notes.
I got a lot more core in my sound so everything was darker, but a nickel-silver leadpipe did a lot to offset that. If you're already on the dark side, be prepared for that.
You'll have to dm Pete for current prices, but it's waaaay easier/cheaper to swap out cores than to unsolder/resolder everything. Even with multiple shipments back & forth and some fine-tuning by a tech (mine was one of the first, so there were some kinks), it was less than 1/3 the cost of an Innovations setup. And worth every penny - I'm surprised more older-horn owners haven't been leaping at this (especially for Bach basses). It's a big difference on the open side of the horn too.
Thanks again, Pete!
Agreed! I'm a happy customer.