New-to-me King 3BF

[LetItSlide]

I acquired a used refurbished King 3BF and have had a chance to play it a bit. Very happy with how the valve notes pop out with a solid core. It’s mechanically in great shape, though the string linkage needed an adjustment.

From what I gather, King is no longer making new 3BFs.

[BGuttman]

Is it a 3BF (2103F) or a 3B+F (2125F)?

The 3B is a .508" bore and all of the ones I've seen or played had direct linkages (no strings).

The 3B+F is .525" bore with a string linkage.

The 3B+F has been discontinued for about a decade, but as far as I know the 3BF is still current.

[LetItSlide]

I’m not very experienced with Kings. The bell says 3B Concert.

My two Kings (the other is a straight 3B) feel the same when I play them. I’ll check the slides to see if they’re both .508 but I think they are.

[AtomicClock]

as far as I know the 3BF is still current.

It's not on the Conn-Selmer webiste.

[LetItSlide]

The outer slide assemblies from the two horns are interchangeable, so it’s .508.

The serial number on the bell section is 698222.

It doesn’t have that gold-almost-orange lacquer because it was relacquered, which must have been quite a job because I understand the factory lacquer is tough stuff.

The F attachment wrap is different from what I’ve seen on other 3BFs. The bottom tube coming out of the valve is at a parallel-to-the-ground angle.

IMG_6772.jpeg

[LetItSlide]

Looking at it closely as I am now, it looks really good. You can tell it’s been worked on but overall I think they did a very nice job.

[BGuttman]

This is an old wrap -- probably from the early 1960s. I played a 1480 with a similar wrap. For that matter this one is probably from the 1403 era.

[Posaunus]

The outer slide assemblies from the two horns are interchangeable, so it’s .508.

The serial number on the bell section is 698222.

Yes, your trombone is a King 3BF. The Serial Number indicates that it was manufactured in 1978.
I have a sibling to yours - my 3BF S/N is 698212. Same linkage, same wrap. It's a fine instrument.

From the photo, it appears that you got a nice one. Enjoy!

[LetItSlide]

Thank you for that information!

[officermayo]

Current King trombones:

[LetItSlide]

I saw the same web page on current King trombones. If you try ordering a new 3BF, you will be notified eventually that your order is cancelled due to product discontinuation.

[JLivi]

The outer slide assemblies from the two horns are interchangeable, so it’s .508.

The serial number on the bell section is 698222.

Yes, your trombone is a King 3BF. The Serial Number indicates that it was manufactured in 1978.
I have a sibling to yours - my 3BF S/N is 698212. Same linkage, same wrap. It's a fine instrument.

From the photo, it appears that you got a nice one. Enjoy!

Same! My 3bf is 727xxx, and falls within the 1975-1980 window. I absolutely love my horn. I picked it up from Greenbean back in 2019. It's my daily driver as I need a valve to teach high school, but still want to rock the straight 3b for gigs. So it's nice to not have to switch between bores throughout the week.

[LetItSlide]

It’s nice to know others own and appreciate this horn from the same era!

[Burgerbob]

I have a similar aged 3B/F. Good horn, I use it all the time... though it was replaced at work by a Yamaha!

[LetItSlide]

I hope Conn-Selmer resumes building new ones.

[ZacharyThornton]

I have talked to some of the higher ups at Conn/Selmer and they made it sound like the 3BF not in the website is an oversite.

[JohnL]

I have talked to some of the higher ups at Conn/Selmer and they made it sound like the 3BF not in the website is an oversite.

Heck of an oversight.

[LetItSlide]

Maybe there haven’t been enough orders for new ones. Speculation only.

[ZacharyThornton]

I have talked to some of the higher ups at Conn/Selmer and they made it sound like the 3BF not in the website is an oversite.

Heck of an oversight.

Have you met the people that run Conn/ Selmer lately?

[ZacharyThornton]

Ever notice as much as us trombone players talk about the 3BF as the great catch all horns? But no companies seem to want to make them. We are in a bubble and all own old ones. No one is buying a .508 with an F attachment new. Everyone wants one for $1200-$1500. Not $3,000 or more.

[MrHCinDE]

Ever notice as much as us trombone players talk about the 3BF as the great catch all horns? But no companies seem to want to make them. We are in a bubble and all own old ones. No one is buying a .508 with an F attachment new. Everyone wants one for $1200-$1500. Not $3,000 or more.

That’s a fair point, around here the new 3BF retails for over 5000€, you can get for about 4400€ or less but this is a hard sell compared to a very nice vintage 3BF for say 1200-1500€.

[LetItSlide]

...
No one is buying a .508 with an F attachment new.
...

The situation of there being none to buy could have something to do with that. And I suppose there are none to buy because the existing demand is filled with used horns, so there aren't enough orders for new ones to justify building them.

Anyway, this horn isn't as great as it is handy, if only once in a while. To the extent that we attach greatness to King 3Bs, it's a great horn. The trigger arrangement isn't very ergonomic, as others have pointed out and as I have recently learned first-hand. However, having that trigger there for the rare occasions when we want it makes it a handy instrument.

If I understand Aidan's comments on his use case for a 3BF, he professionally is called upon to play B's and C's in parts where the King 3B is a good choice. He could and did use 6th and 7th positions on other horns, and sounded excellent doing it, I'm sure, but he found the 3BF a welcome thing.

I remember the last time I showed up to trombone choir rehearsal with a straight tenor, which had normally been fine, but the music that night contained eighth notes around B, B-flat, C. While I can manage that with no F attachment, I prefer not to if I don't have to. I could have brought one of my F-attachment horns, either .525 or .547. But I prefer playing .508 bore. So, where can I get me a .508 with a trigger? And that's why I got one. Well, also because I wanted to see what this instrument is all about, first-hand.

[BGuttman]

I think the big advantage for a 3B with F is in situations where you are playing a part that normally requires a small bore but occasionally need to play a note or two in the trigger register. The example that sticks out for me is playing pit for a musical. You often don't want an overly loud instrument, especially in amateur situations where the cast may not be mic'd.

I think if I could get a tenor sackbut with an F-attachment it might be ideal for school plays.

[hyperbolica]

Anyway, this horn isn't as great as it is handy, if only once in a while.

I was trying to put my feelings about 3bf into words, but this really sums it up. It's handy and maybe fun to play, but not a great horn. I played it for a while in quintet settings, and it was a little thin for me. I liked it at first, but as I dialed up the volume, the sound just wasn't what I wanted it to be.

So I've switched to the 3bf+, and I find that the extra room in this size is really helpful, especially at volume. You can get a little broader sound, but it's still pretty bright and you don't bury the french horn too badly. The mouthpiece choice dials it in.

[RJMason]

I really love my Conn 6H with a valve. Recently I’ve had some shows that are pop horn section but I need to double some bari parts and even switch to that role when the sax player needs to play tenor. I also had a gig where I was doubling tuba a lot and it had a couple bass lines that just came out way smoother with the valve to play Es and C. The horn isn’t as wide or overtone rich as the King, but it really sounds so good, especially on a good mic. The school I teach at has a 90s 3BF in storage and it’s a wonderful horn. Almost makes me wish I just bought a good 3BF instead of modifying my 6H. But the cost for me ended up being the same as buying a mint condition King so I’m not sweating it.

Still, the f attachment on the king would definitely need some mods to feel and play as good as the one Sweeney built for my 6H. It’s really like a mini punchy 72H. I also had him tilt the valve so it doesn’t press into my face, which I think is a big consideration for the few small bore Fs that are overlooked. I think the tilt would’ve made players use them more back in the day. Yamaha and King widths are cool though. If I could get a Yamaha 891ZD with a valve I think I would play that horn exclusively. But if I ever get to try a 3BFSS and like it I will buy it in the spot, so will see which opportunity comes first lol

[LetItSlide]

If I could get a Yamaha 891ZD with a valve I think I would play that horn exclusively.

With or without the 'D' -- absolutely!