Closed or Open Wrap?

[JTeagarden]

Fellow Enthusiasts,


I am having the rotary valve on my early Corporation-era Bach 42 replaced with an Instrument Innovations valve, and the question came up: retain the original closed wrap, or change to open wrap?

I have heard from those who actually know (Matthew Walker especially) that the wrap itself doesn't play a big role in the function of the F-attachment as compared to the valve itself, but am wondering whether there is perhaps a slight difference nonetheless, and what "the street" has to say about the value of either should I resell the Bach?

[ithinknot]

The new valve is considerably larger, so some of the original wrap will have to be modified and remounted anyway. A new open wrap adds parts cost but might not be more work. And, if you haven't already, check whether you have any red rot in the current tubing... that might make the decision for you.

[JTeagarden]

The horn is with Scott Sweeney, I'll leave it to him to diagnose it.

[tbonesullivan]

An open wrap will have no problems with water getting trapped in. As ithinknot mentioned, the valve wrap will need to be modified to match the new valve, and possibly completely reworked. It might be more cost effective to just have it turned into an open wrap in some ways.

[JTeagarden]

I have never had much trouble with condensation in the valve tubings on any trombones I've ever had, unlike, say, my baritone, which seems to be specially designed to catch as much condensation as possible in all three valves.

[CalgaryTbone]

I have played many closed wrap horns that I wouldn't change anything because I really like the horn as is, If I was changing out something like the valve, I would probably also open the wrap because I feel like with an open wrap you can have less bracing to the bell and neckpipe, which allows the bell to ring more.

Jim Scott

[Burgerbob]

I've played an olsen valve 42B with closed wrap. It's pretty great. But as said here, you'll have to dump water if you play in the valve often enough and that's kind of a bummer.

[elmsandr]

With a clean piece of paper, I would go towards a semi-open wrap…. I’d like the neckpipe to be easily modular with a straight pipe (my horns are based on a straight 42).

HOWEVER, I hate really long open wraps. I want to keep it close to the envelope of a straight horn, mostly so I don’t bang it on things behind me. I would also consider very carefully how much pull is on the tuning slide. If it isn’t long enough for a good C and maybe even a B, might as well make it shorter and save the weight.

Cheers,
Andy

[BrianJohnston]

There is definitely a sound and a blow difference.

[JTeagarden]

I don't know that I've ever seen a low C (let alone a B natural) on anything I've had to play on a large-bore tenor, this might suggest where I am in the trombone food chain...

[tbonesullivan]

I don't know that I've ever seen a low C (let alone a B natural) on anything I've had to play on a large-bore tenor, this might suggest where I am in the trombone food chain...

As far as I now, Bach trombones, even their single valve basses, don't have a long enough tuning slide for an E Pull. The best they can do is flat F so you can play an in tune low C.

[harrisonreed]

Sweeney knows what's up.

[Posaunus]

I don't know that I've ever seen a low C (let alone a B natural) on anything I've had to play on a large-bore tenor, this might suggest where I am in the trombone food chain...

As far as I now, Bach trombones, even their single valve basses, don't have a long enough tuning slide for an E Pull. The best they can do is flat F so you can play an in tune low C.

Yet another reason I like my (1970) Conn 71H.

[elmsandr]

I don't know that I've ever seen a low C (let alone a B natural) on anything I've had to play on a large-bore tenor, this might suggest where I am in the trombone food chain...

As far as I now, Bach trombones, even their single valve basses, don't have a long enough tuning slide for an E Pull. The best they can do is flat F so you can play an in tune low C.

Correct. So don’t build in a stupid long tuning slide for no reason. Either fix the design while rebuilding or change it to something that makes sense.

My 0.02
Andy

[JTeagarden]

Thanks for the responses, I'll let Scott guide me when the time comes.

Nobody seems to be wildly in favor of open wrap other than as a means of avoiding condensation accumulating in the valves, and nobody is suggesting that either configuration is more valuable to a prospective purchaser (as when the Bach comes back, I'll likely keep either it or my Edwards T-350, but not both...)

[Posaunus]

... when the Bach comes back, I'll likely keep either it or my Edwards T-350, but not both...

That might be a tough decision!

[JTeagarden]

... when the Bach comes back, I'll likely keep either it or my Edwards T-350, but not both...

That might be a tough decision!

I know it! The Edwards took a bit experimenting to get the slide to work properly, and the retention screw on the valve was loose, the horn works very well now, so if the Bach is magic, great, if not, I will keep te Edwards probably.