TromboneChat

Hi, could someone tell me a current equivalent of the Yamaha YSL 648R Rose trombone? I would like to know its price, both new and second hand in good condition. Thanks.

I am also interested in knowing what you recommend I buy for professional trombone studies, the Yamaha YSL-648R Rose or the Yamaha YSL-448G. Thank you very much again.

The 648R was Yamaha's take on the Conn 88H. They pushed it pretty hard as a replacement for Christian Lindberg, trying to get him to endorse Yamaha instead of Conn. He did two discs on it and he didn't like it as much as his Minick 88H. It's not a one for one equivalent -- I think they were trying to improve on the design in their own way.

hasn't yamaha made quite a few takes on the 88h before they stopped trying to do all that and just make their own good horns and came up with the 882 Xeno?

NotSkilledHere wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 9:28 am ... and just make their own good horns and came up with the 882 Xeno?

Their old horns pre-Xeno are superior, in my book. Xeno should stand for ( eXtra hEavy aNd Overbuilt )

The Yamaha that looked to me more like a Conn 88H was the 643R. The 648 had the semi-open wrap used on the 682 and 620 (as well as the single valve basses).

Note that the 648 was replaced by the 682, which was replaced by the 620. There was also a "studentized" version called the 448.

Rose brass and gold brass are very similar. Often thought synonyms for the same alloy, Gold brass is supposed to be 80% copper and rose brass is supposed to be 85% copper. Red brass is 90% copper.

You're right Bruce. They had more than one horn inspired by the 88H, and some of them had the same F wrap style. The 648R was a move towards modernizing the design.

Lindberg talks about it in a Bob Reeves podcast. They had gone back and forth on a few designs for him, trying to replace or improve on his Minick 88H, and they finally had him on the 648R for about a year. It's on two discs, and he really did not like the sound he was getting ("The Romantic Trombone" and "Burlesque Trombone"). Yamaha cancelled their sponsorship of a Japan tour he was going to do because he told them he wouldn't play it anymore.

Some 648s apparently had the traditional-- Conn 88h like-- wrap and looked very much like my 643II which I like very much.

When did Yamaha make the switch to the more open wrap?

The 648R was always semi-open. Whatever you want to call it, the "Yamaha Wrap".

The Brass Exchange, which always seems to know its models, has a 648 listed with a traditional wrap like the 643.

https://thebrass-exchange.com/content/y ... -pro-level

I would be hardpressed to distinguish this horn from my 643II.

I saw a lot of 648 with "Conn"-style wrap, so, there are 2 different wraps for this model...

648R ≠ 648

It's a different model.

As checked with part search system, there are at least 2 different models of 648. An older one has traditional wrap, and another, newer one(s) listed as 648(2) has Yamaha wrap. The 648R is in the latter category.

The 448G is a “newer”, slightly downgraded model of the 648R, with gold brass bell (not red/rose) and less nickel silver. If the condition is the same or nearly, the 648R would be better in my opinion.

harrisonreed wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 9:11 pm 648R ≠ 648

It's a different model.

I know, but thank you for clarification.
I SAW and play-tested 648R with traditional wrap, like this one :

https://reverb.com/item/14462383-yamaha-ysl-648r

If you check photos you could see model number.
So, my statement is correct, there are/were 2 different wraps for this model.

If you look at the 2 sets of pics-- mine and the one USATrombone posted-- you can also see a slight difference in the handgrip. The one I posted from the Brass Exchange has a slight curve on the handgrip, like my 643II has, while the one USATrombone posted has a more standard handgrip. My Yamaha single trigger bass bone from that era-- a 622R has the more standard straight handgrip.

I'm not sure why Yamaha changed that. I like the curved handgrip. My Conn 48h has one and my old Blessing B88 has one that is somewhat similar, much like the classic 88H handgrip.

Yamaha seems to change model numbers and make minor tweaks more than any other horn maker.

UATrombone wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 8:28 am

harrisonreed wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 9:11 pm 648R ≠ 648

It's a different model.

I know, but thank you for clarification.
I SAW and play-tested 648R with traditional wrap, like this one :

https://reverb.com/item/14462383-yamaha-ysl-648r

If you check photos you could see model number.
So, my statement is correct, there are/were 2 different wraps for this model.

Wow. I wasn't aware of that. Let me stand corrected!

So, like Chaichan pointed out, there was a "Gen II" movement in the late 80's to switch over to the semi open wrap, and at least some examples of the 648R prior to that!

The 682 had replaced the 648 by the mid 1980s when I bought mine (a 682).

harrisonreed wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 11:32 am So, like Chaichan pointed out, there was a "Gen II" movement in the late 80's to switch over to the semi open wrap, and at least some examples of the 648R prior to that!

I think that it was a little earlier, maybe at mid or even early 80's.
As BGuttman wrote:

BGuttman wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 12:50 pm The 682 had replaced the 648 by the mid 1980s when I bought mine (a 682).

Transition periods in any brand history are very "mysterious" (just think about R-serie 88H, which have both "Made in Elkhart" and "Made in USA" engravings )...
Maybe, there were some "leftover" wraps and Yamaha have decided to use them for 648R, who knows?

I'm wondering if the curved hand braces on some 648Rs were left over from the 643II as well.

The hand brace on the 648R on the Brass Exchange link I posted is identical to my 643II.