TromboneChat

Hey all!
This is my first post here so let me know if something is wrong about style or question asked.
I have been playing for quite a while. Basically I've held a trombone in my hands since I was able to hold one. I have been playing actively in a new orchestra lately and I am enjoying mendelsohn more than I thought I would, however many of my pieces are in an extremely high register. I do often hit the notes, but I keep wondering if a new mouthpiece would improve my play. Last time I had this problem, it turned out it was the mouthpiece. The problems form in the high a to c range. This also sometimes results in cramps.

For now I have been using the vincent bach 18c and I have been looking to get a vincent bach 15EW. I have also played the bugle for some time so I think I can find my way around a very small cup. The problem is, no one I know has this mouthpiece to try out. So its a gamble on buying it.

Let me know about your thoughts!

Tycho

I don't advocate using smaller mouthpieces to play high. It's like trying to jump higher by wearing small shoes.

I will say that a shallower mouthpiece can help your upper register, but at the expense of your lower register.

There is an exercise in the Remington set that works on rangebuilding. It's called "Security in the Upper Register". I used this exercise with some modifications to expand my upper register from an iffy C (C5) to a reliable F above (F5). It takes a while, but you can get there.

Note that I play a 1.02" rim (roughly Bach 4 size). After I learned to play (on a 12C) I generally gravitated to larger and larger rims. If your facial structure calls for that also, you will find that small mouthpieces don't help matters at all.

Good luck.

What kind of music do you play?

Very generally speaking: If you are already on a Bach 18c and struggling with high a to c range, going even smaller is probably not the right way, but more adapting something in your playing or even going larger.

I am saying "generally" and "probably" because there can always be exceptions and there are better experts than myself.

I'm going to guess that a "normal" sized mouthpiece like a 6 1/2 AL or 6 3/4, and lots of practice in the low register, lip slurs, etc, would vastly improve your upper register -- much more than trying tiny mouthpieces.

The upper register is about air and embouchure mechanics, which both work better if you use a cup width that fits your face. The cup depth is a factor that affects the tone and the feeling of compression, and, generally, shallow mouthpieces make the upper register easier to play.

Like Bruce said, if your feet fit properly in size 10 shoes, strapping on size 4 moon shoes won't help you jump higher. You need size 10 moon shoes. The Bach 15 is a classic example from a time where mouthpiece makers made "moon shoes" to help you jump higher (the shallow alto cup), but only offered them in one size (the cup diameter, in the case).

Unlike the "bad old days" (when the only mouthpieces available were the ones Vincent Bach designed) it's now possible to get a shallow cup mouthpiece (that can enhance high range), with a rim size that will fit your face.

I briefly tried going the Bach "tiny mouthpiece" route. Didn't work for me (or anyone that I know).

I agree with all of the above. I had trouble on high notes playing lead in a big band on a small bore and found that a Bach 5 really opened up the horn for me, especially the high range. You could get a Skype session with Doug Elliott and he can pretty much pinpoint what you need without you having to try a bunch of different pieces. Good luck!

I have a bunch of mouthpieces. I like my King 29 on my 1480 and 11M on my 3B. Both are just stock mouthpieces. The 18 you have is already a super-small mouthpiece, so maybe a pair of tight shoes is the answer......

Many of Mendelssohn's pieces are really meant for alto trombone. Most of Beethoven's and some of Brahms' , too. 18C and 15EW are more suitable to alto trombone or very small bore peashooter trombone. If you use these with normallish tenor trombone you may form a bad habit eventually(although some can do). If you are struggling high A to C range, then, consider leaving the principal part to the professionals and play the second trombone part, and concentrate on rhythm and intonation. After you are more developed, then you can play principal part without forming bad habits.

This thread reminds me of my high school years. 1971-75. All of the brass players in my Chicago high school were enamored with Maynard in those years, and thought the secret to success in the upper register was playing on smaller and smaller mouthpieces. I played trombone and baritone horn in those days on a Bach 17C or an 18EW(!), which achieved the high notes, but at the cost of a thin, brittle tone and terrible out of tune low register among other problems. It wasn't until college that I was introduced to the concepts of breath control, embouchure techniques, mechanics, and a lot of work! The other issue might be appropriate equipment. Those early 19C first trombone parts were really meant for alto trombone. I don't know what equipment you are playing on, but that could be an issue. If you are going to play those parts on a small bore tenor it will take much work. There are great suggestions and resources cited here to build up your technique. Good luck!