TromboneChat

Hello, I switched from baritone to trombone and started by playing a new silver plated Yamaha YSL-354. Although content with the instrument, I am looking to upgrade the instrument. In this process I am trying out many trombones, and I am wondering now what you guys think is the most integral part of the trombone that is responsible for sound.

I am inclined to say that the bell piece and how it is constructed and its material is the most important. Do you agree? But how much is the influence of the slide piece (inner and outer tube) and its material? How much the player and the mouthpiece?

Generally I am looking for a trombone that has character in its sound and has a little bit of "sizzle" if i push it. But the slide has to run smoothly as well. So can I go hunting for a bell piece that I like (also very old instruments) and organize a fitting slide afterwards or should I see the bell and slide more as one piece that has to fit together and follows a certain philosophy?

Would be very happy to get some inside from you experienced players.

P.S. The Yamaha YSL-354 holds itself very well against many instruments 3-4 times its price...

I'll grab the

MichaelBavarian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:13 pm Generally I am looking for a trombone that has character in its sound and has a little bit of "sizzle" if i push it.

What comes to mind for me is a Red brass bell as this is that I get with my bass trombone. It was too much sizzle so I had to switch mouthpieces to fix.

In general I would say the most important part of the sound is at both ends and you get less change the closer to the middle. The least important is the screw that holds the two parts together. Things change once you add a valve or two...


Almost forgot, you as a player is the biggest thing that can change the sound. Found this out when I wanted the same equipment as another player to sound like him but when he played my horn he pretty much sounded the same. When I got a chance to play his horn my sound was more or less the same but the effort and the way the horn speaks was really different.

The player! 100%

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:41 pm The player! 100%

Agreed.

Also agree with the player!

Dave Finlayson had good advice for the instrument side of the question - in his view, the closer something is to the face, the more difference it makes. So mouthpiece, leadpipe, slide, make more of a difference to him than the valve or bell. I can see his point of view!

This is difficult. I've heard horns that stay the same (as well as the player) sound 180 degrees different with just a bell change. It is a lot of material.

The Yamaha 354 is an excellent trombone, for sure. Much better than you would expect for an instrument designed for beginners. It's probably not holding you back at all, actually, and the only reason to upgrade would be that you need something larger bore and/or with an F valve.

I would advise against trying to put together an instrument from different parts, especially if they come from different manufacturers. Find a complete instrument that is clearly an improvement on the 354 and play it until you bump up against its limits. Then maybe you will have a better idea of exactly what you want and can buy a trombone from one of the many excellent makers around the world. Or you will know exactly what vintage instrument will make you happy and can search for that.

I would say leadpipe, I can sound very different depending on what leadpipe I am playing on.

And to answer the question in your subject: all of it. It's not one part or another that makes an instrument's characteristic sound, it's the balance and combination of elements.

But mostly it's the player.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:19 pm I'll grab the

Heh.

I'll agree with Gabe -- don't try to build an instrument from parts. There are a lot of frankenbones out there that are less than successful. Instead, be patient and the next horn will find you. Finding a horn is like finding a job; it's easier when you already have one.

Good luck

Shape of the interior and how the interior surface reflects.

baileyman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:50 am Shape of the interior ...

Yeah, that's big, even bigger than the player. Player can't make trumpet sound like sousaphone. The inside shape is why a bass trombone sounds different from a tenor trombone even though they are the same material, length and maybe the same player.

Aside from that, the material has an impact, but only if you have a lot of one material. Get a horn with yellow brass and nickel silver, and it will give you sizzle. All red brass, and it will have different characteristics. Everything has a small impact and there are many different areas to be impacted (relative overtone strength, articulation, intonation, volume, slotting...). Interior shape is the biggest single factor, probably followed by overall weight, bell, slide, leadpipe, mouthpiece, bracing....

...and there's a difference between sound and feel. Honestly, though, I put more weight on feel, because I can't hear the sound 30 or 100 feet away.

In terms of the perception of sound as part of some music, it’s probably 80% person and 20% hardware for me, within the boundary conditions of it being of the same basic type (i.e. large tenor trombone, bass trombone, euphonium etc). When I listen to someone play and think they have a nice sound it‘s intrinsically linked with phrasing and intonation, amongst other things. To some extent, whichever of my horns I play it still sounds like me. The 20% is because I do tend to like a horn with a decent amount of player feedback and that gives me confidence to free up the more artistic elements, and there is some small but important difference to what comes out of the bell (I agree with the theory about the start and end being most important btw).

In terms of playing long notes a capella or those favourite licks everyone has (don’t deny it!) to test a horn out, it’s more like 50:50, these practically never appear in a real performance though.

What makes the sound? The vibrating lips activated by the airstream which in turns excites the air column in the instrument.

What influences and shapes the sound?

1. The player—their sound concept, physical characteristics
2. The player’s influences—experience, who they play with, who they’ve studied with, who they listen to

After that, you have:
3. The horn, consisting of:
A. Mouthpiece
B. Leadpipe
C. Slide
D. Slide Crook
D.2. Second yard of the slide if it’s dual-bore
E. Tenon
F. Neckpipe
G. Tuning slide (assuming TIB)
H. Bell
I. All the tapers found throughout

Like a couple people have already said: It’s the whole package.

Yes, different alloys in the bell, the tuning slide crook, the slide crook, the leadpipe, etc., make a difference, especially in the player’s “feel” of the horn, i.e., feedback.

If you’re playing a lot in the lower part of the staff, specifically C3 and B2 , then a horn with an F-attachment will be very useful. Otherwise, a YSL 354 is a great little horn.