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Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:59 pm
by Jagger99
Hey team,
Got sent a couple of photos of an antique B&H, can't find heaps of info of quality/materials/bell sizes/uses.
It's advertised as an old Royal Australian Navy trombone, "imperial/special" engraved on the bell with "4040" below it and comes with the (I think) nice looking semiquaver on top of the globe counterweight.
Not sure if it's worth anything as a player or a collector item but still super curious on the history of the horn
Serial numbers LR240xxx and 14931 date it to 1957 if I'm correct?
Thanks in advance!!
Jagger
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Re: Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:11 am
by stewbones43
It is difficult to see any details from the photographs you have but from the information you have provided I would suggest that this trombone was made in 1957, serial number 240***. The preceding letters should be LP not LR-LP for Low Pitch, the standard international pitch A=440. At that time B&H also made brass instruments in High Pitch-HP- as brass bands were continuing to use this older pitch standard; it was about a third of a tone higher. The "Imperial" models were their top professional models at that time and the semiquaver and globe was a B&H trademark, used as a counter weight on trombones and a smaller version used as a main tuning slide stay decoration on the "Imperial" trumpets. I think that 4040 was the code for the standard B&H tenor trombone size, i.e. bore = 0.487in diameter and bell 7 to 7.75in diameter. The "special" engraving on the bell and the number 14931 are a mystery.
The value is dependent on condition, especially of the main hand slide; it is not easy to obtain replacements if the tubes are badly worn or damaged. The dimensions already mentioned are small by current standards and generally indicate a jazz trombone these days but the heavy, strong construction of this trombone make it suitable for use in a marching band or for a beginner to learn on.
Hope this has helped
Cheers
Stewbones43
Re: Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:18 pm
by DavidR
stewbones43 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:11 am
It is difficult to see any details from the photographs you have but from the information you have provided I would suggest that this trombone was made in 1957, serial number 240***. The preceding letters should be LP not LR-LP for Low Pitch, the standard international pitch A=440. At that time B&H also made brass instruments in High Pitch-HP- as brass bands were continuing to use this older pitch standard; it was about a third of a tone higher. The "Imperial" models were their top professional models at that time and the semiquaver and globe was a B&H trademark, used as a counter weight on trombones and a smaller version used as a main tuning slide stay decoration on the "Imperial" trumpets. I think that 4040 was the code for the standard B&H tenor trombone size, i.e. bore = 0.487in diameter and bell 7 to 7.75in diameter. The "special" engraving on the bell and the number 14931 are a mystery.
The value is dependent on condition, especially of the main hand slide; it is not easy to obtain replacements if the tubes are badly worn or damaged. The dimensions already mentioned are small by current standards and generally indicate a jazz trombone these days but the heavy, strong construction of this trombone make it suitable for use in a marching band or for a beginner to learn on.
Hope this has helped
Cheers
Stewbones43
Hi there; I have a Boosey and Hawkes Imperial 4040 bone. It's unusual in that it has an extra tuning slide option which pitches the bone in B. I've never seen this before in trombones, even with other Imperial 4040s. It's serial number is HP 232466. Any idea of it's age?
Re: Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 2:05 pm
by BGuttman
DavidR wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:18 pm
...
Hi there; I have a Boosey and Hawkes Imperial 4040 bone. It's unusual in that it has an extra tuning slide option which pitches the bone in B. I've never seen this before in trombones, even with other Imperial 4040s. It's serial number is HP 232466. Any idea of it's age?
I would guess it's no newer than 1970 since the High Pitch (the shorter tuning slide) was abandoned about then in England.
Re: Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 2:34 pm
by AtomicClock
Re: Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:58 pm
by LeTromboniste
DavidR wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:18 pm
It's unusual in that it has an extra tuning slide option which pitches the bone in B. I've never seen this before in trombones, even with other Imperial 4040s.
That's what the "HP" stamp means. "High pitch" instruments usually came with a second, longer tuning slide so that they could play in low pitch too if needed. So the extra slide is actually the long one. The short one is what the instrument is in principle designed to play with.
Using the shorter slide doesn't change the nominal pitch of the instrument: it's still in Bb, just at a higher reference pitch. It should normally not bring you quite to B, as this "high pitch" was about a quartertone higher (around a=455) than modern pitch, not a full semitone (which would be a=465).
Re: Boosey & Hawkes Info?
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:06 pm
by DavidR
Thanks for that. Very interesting. Yes you're right; it's a shade under B which puzzled me.