TromboneChat

As we know, as we ascend to the high notes, the tongue moves back and up, to narrow the airstream. Past a certain point, the tip of my tongue can no longer reach the top of my mouth. So then what? I can get a sort of "kah" working, like the back half of a double-tongue. It sounds pretty bad, but that could be due to my lack of practice up there.

Maybe "up and forward" instead?

Tee or Dee attack. The tongue will naturally find it's place and the abdominals will engage as well. Slow practice octaves from low to high then high to low.

baileyman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:07 pm Maybe "up and forward" instead?

I think probably what's happening is that I'm ascending above my comfort range using disproportionately too much tongue restriction, and not enough abs/air. So the problems I'm having at are due to a tongue position the pros don't use until the Steinmeyer range, where everything can be a natural slur.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:58 am As we know, as we ascend to the high notes, the tongue moves back and up, to narrow the airstream. Past a certain point, the tip of my tongue can no longer reach the top of my mouth. So then what? I can get a sort of "kah" working, like the back half of a double-tongue. It sounds pretty bad, but that could be due to my lack of practice up there.

Well, I don't think this is the right way to play high notes. Your tongue probably shouldn't move back, but should move forward instead. Tongueing high notes should be easy, as the tip of your tongue should be hanging out very close to your teeth.

Well, I think I'm done with high notes for the day. But this is pretty interesting:

https://thelasttrombone.com/2017/08/22/ ... y-project/

However, in MBRP studies with other subjects, it has been found that when a person engages in “hollow whistling” – making the sound of air speed rising and falling through relaxed and slightly open lips without making an actual whistling sound – the tongue does mimic the movements the tongue makes while playing.

I try this, and my tongue certainly moves up and forward.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:33 pm Well, I think I'm done with high notes for the day. But this is pretty interesting:

https://thelasttrombone.com/2017/08/22/ ... y-project/

However, in MBRP studies with other subjects, it has been found that when a person engages in “hollow whistling” – making the sound of air speed rising and falling through relaxed and slightly open lips without making an actual whistling sound – the tongue does mimic the movements the tongue makes while playing.

I try this, and my tongue certainly moves up and forward.

That practice you mention is effective and I learned it from Doug Elliot. Incorporate tah, tu, and tee in low, medium, and high ranges to match up with what you discover from the hollow whistling. But that's just one component, another is to know what direction your instrument should be directed to for those ranges. The only way I know of discovering that is through a lesson with Doug.

tbdana wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:48 pm Well, I don't think this is the right way to play high notes. Your tongue probably shouldn't move back, but should move forward instead. Tongueing high notes should be easy, as the tip of your tongue should be hanging out very close to your teeth.

Heh. I find for myself neither is the case. My tongue stays in about the same position but I change vowels as I play higher - going to more of a "eu" sound. (Yes, this is not the "ee" in Arban's and I am skeptical of the precise vowel to be used because everyone s different and so are the actual implementations of vowels in different languages.)

AndrewMeronek wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 3:49 pm
Heh. I find for myself neither is the case. My tongue stays in about the same position but I change vowels as I play higher - going to more of a "eu" sound. (Yes, this is not the "ee" in Arban's and I am skeptical of the precise vowel to be used because everyone s different and so are the actual implementations of vowels in different languages.)

He was also writing a cornet method book, not a low brass method book.

I have mentioned this before in response to articulation questions:
The tongue position where you say Nee is closer to the way you should play high notes. It uses just the very front part of the tongue, anchoring the middle on the inside of your teeth.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:31 pm I have mentioned this before...

https://www.trombone.org/articles/view.php?id=62

... he said "You know, it used to puzzle me... students would come to my house; I'd give them an hour lesson, tell them just about everything I know, and then two weeks later they'd come back for another lesson and I'd end up telling them the same damned thing all over again...

As a learner, I am occasionally amazed whenever things that I've heard over and over and over... suddenly make sense. I thought I understood them before, but I REALLY get it now. At 50 years old, I think I just recently understood "corners" and "air support" for the first time, despite hearing those concepts discussed for a long time.