TromboneChat

What is the reasoning behind cases that put the slide crook opposite the bell? Even if you are diligent about emptying every bit of water out of the slide, it will still leak out into the case and onto your bell if you store it upright, bell down.

I usually store mine the other way, if possible, so whatever small condensation is left doesn't leak into the bumper tubes, onto my bell, and into the case.

I'd rather the slide empty itself while sitting around. I can clean off the bell.

I keep a couple of paper towels in my case and put them around the open ends of the slide and bell ends so it will absorb any left over moisture and not leak all over the case.

Yes Harrison. The old "French-Style" Bach cases are an example of that. All of the moisture from the slide drained onto the bell because the mouthpiece receiver/slide tenon was towards the bell side. That's why there is/was an entire generation of Bach trombones that have corrosion at the bell flare and bell rim. The case was a compact design, but very poor in terms of preserving the finish/lacquer on the bell.

One thing that many players do not consider is the condensation that will automatically accumulate in a horn with severe temperature changes. In the winter, if you play on a horn and completely empty the moisture in a room that is 72 degrees Fahrenheit, pack the horn in the case and transport the horn in very cold temperatures, condensation will still accumulate on the inside of the horn.

There are many examples of case designs that were destructive for instruments:

*There was a gig bag that had a tripod stand built into it (was it the Altieri??) that would drain all of the moisture in the bell section down to the tuning because the bell was upside down in the case. I have replaced several main tuning slide crooks because the moisture gathered in the main tuning slide in that style of case and created red rot.

*The old Bundy cases only had about 1/2 inch clearance from the mouthpiece receiver to the bell flare in the case. If a kid put the slide in backwards, the bell receiver would automatically dent the bell. If the kid put the slide in correctly and closed the case quickly, it would dent the bell. If a kid accidentally left the mouthpiece in the receiver and closed the case, well......you can figure it out.

*Yamaha had a student/intermediate case (it was a grayish color) in which there was a rivet on the bottom of the case that jutted out about 1/2 inch into the slide compartment on the inside. The result.....almost every trombone that was stored in it eventually got a sharp dent in the cork barrel that was facing downward.

Yet more testimony that water (even condensation) is the enemy of brass instruments. It may take a while, but the chemical processes will move forward.

Clean and dry your trombones regularly, and store them "dead dry!"

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:29 pm There was a gig bag that had a tripod stand built into it (was it the Altieri??)

Wolfpak.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:35 pm

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:29 pm There was a gig bag that had a tripod stand built into it (was it the Altieri??)

Wolfpak.

That’s right, it was the old Wolfpak cases that had that tripod design. Thanks for clarifying!

It wasn’t until the 3rd or 4th horn came through with red rot in the main tuning slide that I made the connection. A lot of those horns were nice Edwards trombones from the late 90s and early 2000s.

The offending arrangement can be fixed. Take some fabric that is a bit absorbent and a bit stiff but will not leak directly through, and attach it to the inside of the slide box flap so that when the top of the case closes, the flap extends between the bell and the open tube ends. Bach French style cases came with a useless flap to cover the risk-free part of the bell section. Move that to the end of the slide box instead.

Simple fix - put a Seagram's Whiskey bag over either or both ends of the slide. I will still fit into any slide pouch in a case, and the dripping issue is solved. In my Bona bass trombone case I can't do that so I drape a microfiber cloth over the bell to catch any possible dripping. Again, problem solved.

Light bulb. Thanks, this never occurred to me, and it has to be the reason for the state of my Bach (french case) bell rim section.

I do like that the slide is stored open end down so it will drain. I agree water is the enemy of brass. But as pointed out there are simple ways to keep it off the bell, I just never realized it was happening.

Add me to the list of those who never thought of the issue of the slide draining onto the bell. I will be adding some modifications.
Another issue that once I saw, now I can't not see - some of my cases will also need something to cover the slide receiver opening in the bell section.

I never paid much thought to the few drops that come out of the horn into the case. My decades-old cases are not musty at all. It must evaporate fairly quickly. Are the more modern (carbon-fiber, fiberglass, ...) cases sufficiently breathable to keep water from accumulating?

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:53 pm I never paid much thought to the few drops that come out of the horn into the case. My decades-old cases are not musty at all. It must evaporate fairly quickly. Are the more modern (carbon-fiber, fiberglass, ...) cases sufficiently breathable to keep water from accumulating?

It might not be a good idea to have a droplet of water (and whatever is dissolved in it) evaporate on a piece of brass.

The oxygen concentration at the edge of the droplet will differ from the center, causing a small electrical charge (oxygen cell corrosion.) That's a real problem in stainless steel. I don't know how it affects brass but generally alloys are more susceptible.

Just thinking out loud.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:41 pm Yet more testimony that water (even condensation) is the enemy of brass instruments. It may take a while, but the chemical processes will move forward.

Clean and dry your trombones regularly, and store them "dead dry!"

Exactly! I got into the habit of keeping a microfibre cloth and swab-rod (with another small strip of microfibre cloth attached) in my case. After every practice session, rehearsal and performance, when packing up, I always took a couple of minutes to dry (and polish) each surface—inside and outside of both inner and outer tubes. [When looking through the inner tubes, held up to a light, you should see a mirror finish.] A tiny bit of condensate remaining in the bow is not too serious—but the bow should also be cleaned regularly with an appropriate 'snake-brush'. This not only solves the 'dripping-into-case-onto-bell' problem, no matter which way the slide is oriented, but it will also keep the slide in pristine mechanical condition.

During a long break in a rehearsal of the Stow Symphony Orchestra at a local high school one evening, I picked up a student instrument there to test the slide. It was almost unplayably 'stiff' with friction. I looked through the inner slides (held up to a bright light) and saw: black muck! No doubt, the inside of the outer slide tubes were in a similar condition. I had cleaning equipment with me, so I took it to the bathroom and thoroughly cleaned and polished (and dried) every surface of the slide until it was (almost) 'like new'. No doubt, next day some student was (pleasantly) surprised that the 'elves' had been in overnight.



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Sesquitone wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:35 am No doubt, next day some student was (pleasantly) surprised that the 'elves' had been in overnight.

Or maybe the student was disappointed when the slide flew across the band room floor.