TromboneChat

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:47 am**

IMG_20231226_213557_724.jpg

By some strange happening I ended up selling all my horns, only being left with a bell, tuning slide, and hand slide. Since I prefer to not go without having a working horn, I've quickly started to cobble a new valve section together. Won't be anything terribly fancy, but since I only needed to order $5-600 in parts, it will be cheap.

There's going to be a few new fun innovations on it, so kinda worth keeping the build in order somewhere.

Here's some photos that bring it up to date here. My hope is everything comes in within the next couple of weeks, and I can knock it out in two long days. I have all the new ferrule blanks cut, so just fitting left. I friction fit everything by hand, leaving a stop internally in the ferrules. Makes getting everything aligned properly way easier.

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:48 am**

A dependent, I take it?

This will be very interesting to follow! You have a nice creative way of solving and inventing that I regard as an evolution of the trombone. I hope some really great ideas will come from this project.

Best wishes for your project!

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:15 pm**

Digidog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:48 am A dependent, I take it?

This will be very interesting to follow! You have a nice creative way of solving and inventing that I regard as an evolution of the trombone. I hope some really great ideas will come from this project.

Best wishes for your project!

Thank you! Yes, I'm personally a fan.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:05 pm**

Suggestion that fits well with an independent system. Make the tubing on the 2nd valve a little larger. That will balance the blow and make the horn feel very in balance.

I have a Bach bass from the 60's. The second valve was added just before I bought it in the 70's. It was set up as a dependent Bb/F/E. I had a new tuning slide made with larger tubing in C so now the horn is Bb/F/C. Low C with both valves is in first position and plays very open. Peddle BBb is in a long 3rd and plays easy too. Low B in two trigger long 2nd position is an easy hit. So in the key of C and the sharp keys the horn is easy to play as the positions are close to the same as with the F valve for C, B, Bb, and A.

The larger tubing on the second valve makes the horn very a balanced blow all the way down. Since I learned this way, it makes more sense than an independent horn because the sound works easy. And as I play a straight tenor or a single valve tenor, the simplicity of both valves on the bass being mostly 1st, 2nd or 3rd position, playing this horn is just like playing a trombone to me.

When I thought this up many years ago when the closest thing to the internet was a horn catalog or seeing a guy with 3 valves on a bass. Seems like it was Mike Suter and the valves were Bb/F/E/Eb and all 3 D. My logic was playing F or C is in 1st with a valve, so C is in first with 2 valves and when the slide goes out the bore is larger. And the Valve tubing is larger. So more tubing must be larger still.

Pics are in my profile.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:50 am**

whitbey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:05 pm Suggestion that fits well with an independent system. Make the tubing on the 2nd valve a little larger. That will balance the blow and make the horn feel very in balance.

I have a Bach bass from the 60's. The second valve was added just before I bought it in the 70's. It was set up as a dependent Bb/F/E. I had a new tuning slide made with larger tubing in C so now the horn is Bb/F/C. Low C with both valves is in first position and plays very open. Peddle BBb is in a long 3rd and plays easy too. Low B in two trigger long 2nd position is an easy hit. So in the key of C and the sharp keys the horn is easy to play as the positions are close to the same as with the F valve for C, B, Bb, and A.

The larger tubing on the second valve makes the horn very a balanced blow all the way down. Since I learned this way, it makes more sense than an independent horn because the sound works easy. And as I play a straight tenor or a single valve tenor, the simplicity of both valves on the bass being mostly 1st, 2nd or 3rd position, playing this horn is just like playing a trombone to me.

When I thought this up many years ago when the closest thing to the internet was a horn catalog or seeing a guy with 3 valves on a bass. Seems like it was Mike Suter and the valves were Bb/F/E/Eb and all 3 D. My logic was playing F or C is in 1st with a valve, so C is in first with 2 valves and when the slide goes out the bore is larger. And the Valve tubing is larger. So more tubing must be larger still.

Pics are in my profile.

Thanks for the suggestion, but there's quite a few reasons I like to keep it super uniform with dependent valves. I do, however like using progressive bore setups on independent valve sections.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:41 am**

PXL_20231231_152015877.PORTRAIT.jpg

Some Sunday progress. I pivoted slightly, using more of the parts it came with than I had planned.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:32 am**

Very cool. Do you have a sketch of how your wrap is going to be planned out? I’d be interested to see your ideas!

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:04 pm**

Amconk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:32 am Very cool. Do you have a sketch of how your wrap is going to be planned out? I’d be interested to see your ideas!

This is the general idea for the F wrap.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 12:01 pm**

Correction, going this route.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:01 am**

Took way too much time to map out a straight line, but I have it where I'm happy with the routing. About as far as I can go til parts get here.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:25 pm**

Awesome! Looking forward to more pics. I've built a few frankenbones over the years, but I'd love to have access to the tools and parts to build something like this, with my own wrap design and built with my two fat little hands.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:03 pm**

Amconk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:25 pm Awesome! Looking forward to more pics. I've built a few frankenbones over the years, but I'd love to have access to the tools and parts to build something like this, with my own wrap design and built with my two fat little hands.

Thanks! Admittedly this is me kinda screwing around, since I'll have very little money in the project, and it's just for me to use. That being said, I'll still build it to the level I build anything, because it's likely someone will end up buying it off of me at some point. There's a few new things I'm doing on it to see how they work that I'm real excited to try out.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:24 am**

Parts have arrived, slowly assembling in between mouthpieces.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:28 am**

Curious to see how you'll wind up bracing the D valve wrap.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:35 am**

Blabberbucket wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:28 am Curious to see how you'll wind up bracing the D valve wrap.

I actually have some really slick bracing components currently in production at the printer. I'm bracing this horn a bit more than I normally do just because the wrap is sprawled out everywhere.

Posted: **Fri Jan 05, 2024 6:00 pm**

Just a bit of soldering and fitting on the F wrap today, so not much visual progress. Getting all the tubes to zero out to the correct angles was surprisingly easy, unlike previous days. Tomorrow I plan to knock out the Eb wrap, which will be a bit unique itself. Overall I'm quite satisfied with how it's turning out.

Posted: **Fri Jan 05, 2024 7:27 pm**

Looking downright beautiful. Love the look of the wrap…

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:50 am**

atopper333 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 7:27 pm Looking downright beautiful. Love the look of the wrap…

Thank you, quite happy with it myself! I don't know how long I'll have this one, or if it'll just be my backup valve section, since I have a set of independent hagmanns coming to build. It's looking like a customer may get the Hagmanns instead l, in which case this will end up being my main horn for a little bit.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:29 pm**

PXL_20240107_001755829.PORTRAIT.jpg

PXL_20240107_001726862.PORTRAIT.jpg

Plumbing is done. Now I wait for printed parts.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:22 pm**

Fascinating. Though, that S bend in the Eb loop…

88F29A7B-43CF-4557-A5B2-1428A5948E38.jpeg

First thing that came to mind.

I do love playing against the standard planes and angles. Life is more fun with more variety there.

Cheers,
Andy

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:55 am**

elmsandr wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:22 pm Fascinating. Though, that S bend in the Eb loop…

88F29A7B-43CF-4557-A5B2-1428A5948E38.jpeg

First thing that came to mind.

I do love playing against the standard planes and angles. Life is more fun with more variety there.

Cheers,
Andy

Lol! For some reason it looks questionable in photos, but in person it's just fine. This may end up being a placeholder for something else down the line anyhow.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:18 am**

Trying to figure out the tuning slide. That S bend is part of the tuning slide crook?

I think it looks cool, but wondering what the rationale was for that choice vs just a straight normal U bend, is it just because of parts availability, or esthetic reason?

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:51 am**

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:18 am Trying to figure out the tuning slide. That S bend is part of the tuning slide crook?

I think it looks cool, but wondering what the rationale was for that choice vs just a straight normal U bend, is it just because of parts availability, or esthetic reason?

Sure is. Needed adjustment to get everything to line up, and this was the only way that would work.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:19 am**

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:51 am
LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:18 am Trying to figure out the tuning slide. That S bend is part of the tuning slide crook?

I think it looks cool, but wondering what the rationale was for that choice vs just a straight normal U bend, is it just because of parts availability, or esthetic reason?
Sure is. Needed adjustment to get everything to line up, and this was the only way that would work.

Ah, yes. The Spare Parts Shuffle.

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:40 am**

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:19 am
LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:51 am

Sure is. Needed adjustment to get everything to line up, and this was the only way that would work.
Ah, yes. The Spare Parts Shuffle.

More or less! Funny enough it didn't photograph well, but looks adequate in person. I don't want to take the time right now for a more aesthetically pleasing solution since it's just for me, but I left it so changing it out for a shepherd's crook will be very doable later on.

Posted: **Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:02 pm**

I’d like to see a pic of it from the opposite side.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:13 am**

Amconk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:02 pm I’d like to see a pic of it from the opposite side.

I'll get those up today.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:17 am**

Progress

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:22 pm**

Still looking awesome! What material are you using for the ferrules on the wrap?

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:54 pm**

atopper333 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:22 pm Still looking awesome! What material are you using for the ferrules on the wrap?

Thanks! Bronze, same that I use on mouthpiece shanks.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:56 pm**

As requested, back of the horn, and updated front. Waiting on stop arms so I can finish up

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:43 am**

Okay, okay, ya twisted my arm. I’ll take it. lol.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:26 pm**

What kind of bell is that? And soldered or unsoldered? Not gonna lie, I want that too.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:43 pm**

Amconk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:43 am Okay, okay, ya twisted my arm. I’ll take it. lol.

no joke, most horns I build for myself, this is what happens.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:45 pm**

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:26 pm What kind of bell is that? And soldered or unsoldered? Not gonna lie, I want that too.

Olds S24G bell I picked up new old stock. I think you may have to fight a couple of other gents for it, lol.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:16 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:28 pm**

Amconk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:16 pm

Ok ok, you win

Posted: **Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:39 am**

Still waiting on stop arms, which is driving me a bit mad. They should be shipping any day, at which point I can promptly close this guy out. In the meantime, it's been a while since I messed with different bells, so I just ordered a Bach 50 9.5" gold bell to add into the system. Oddly enough I've never owned any variants of 50 bells, hoping it does something for me.

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:22 am**

Linkage is all completed, just have to break it back down for finish work. I LOVE how it plays. Nice balance, valves have great action, sound is very even in and out of the valved notes. I had made plans to use this as my backup valve section, and to build a set of Hagmanns for my daily driver, but after spending enough time on it, Im going to stick with these for daily use.

I'll get some video of how it sounds up shortly. I have a new bell on order from Sandner, Bach 50 style mandrel, medium weight gold brass with a small nickel garland, and will be adding in a 62-78 slide as well, but even with my current components it sounds great.

Posted: **Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:49 am**

Need to get some video done, but I've been playing this as my daily driver for a while now and couldn't be happier. As the horn has taken an unusual direction I thought to update it here. Through a very roundabout way, I ended up experimenting with the distribution of tubing in the bell section and slide. By adding a few inches to the tuning slide I was about to really adjust the sound in some interesting/beneficial ways, that required shortening the slide down by the corresponding amount. There's still a flat 6th position, but no 7th (which I don't use anyhow). It's good enough that I looked into having some proper tuning slide crooked made to this spec, and may do a small run of them for anyone who likes the idea.

Posted: **Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:59 am**

That looks really nice!

Amazing how small the wrap looks, and how compact it seems in between the neck and the flare, but that's maybe a trick of the eye.

Congrats to sweet horn!

Posted: **Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:27 am**

I will salute your choice of a brace-less main tuning slide. I am using those for both tenor and bass bones.
You do great work!!!

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