Greg Black sound?

[Bach5G]

Someone recently said their mpc had a typical Greg Black sound.

What would that be?

[Burgerbob]

Lots of low and middle overtones, perhaps a bit less of the high side. Dense, a certain quality to the articulation as well.

I would assume Greg said that, since nothing else sounds like those pieces.

[WGWTR180]

Lots of low and middle overtones, perhaps a bit less of the high side. Dense, a certain quality to the articulation as well.

I would assume Greg said that, since nothing else sounds like those pieces.

Not in my opinion. With all due respect. His 1 and 1/2G sounds bright to me in every instrument I've played. Articulations are clear but I find nothing dense about the sound either-low overtones are lacking.. Sorry-I really like Greg and respect all he has done. I do, however, have a GB 1 and 1/2G with a Conn shank that I cannot wait to try in my Conn 62H project once it's complete!!!

[Burgerbob]

Could have just been your particular example... I think they are still handmade. One of the most complete bass trombones I've ever heard was on a GB 1 1/2G.

[WGWTR180]

Don't think so. I've owned several throughout the years. Compared to my MV 1 and 1/2G it's not even close. However I know someone who plays on one who sounds amazing. It's a personal choice as is everything else.

[dukesboneman]

Never having played a Greg Black Mouthpiece , I was just a observer here.
Today I played a few of Greg`s pieces at the FMEA Conference in Tampa
I ended up buying a 1 3/8 G, Medium weight. I can`t stop playing my Bass.
I have a few Bass Mouthpieces but nothing that is even top to bottom on the horn and the sound
is rich and beautiful.
The other one I tried was the NY Legend JJ Johnson Giardinelli/Black
NEVER have I played a small shank mouthpiece that had a sound that was that lush and thick.
I`m not sure how it would cut in a Big Band but for solo playing, quartet/quintet - it would be beautiful.
I`m sold.

[SwissTbone]

Good question! I definitely think GB mouthpieces have a particular sound to them. It's hard to describe, adjectives that come to mind are:

Solid
Reliable (articulations)
Dense
Lush

Hope that helps.

[Matt K]

I don't think it's unreasonable to say there is a "Greg Black" sound. I have a bass piece that I like though I seldom use it because the number of classical bass trombone gigs I've ever gotten is probably in the double digits. Maybe malleable is a good word? Not all of the pieces have the same feel though and so you end up in the same problem that you get when you're comparing "Shires to Edwards" to reference that thread that's currently ongoing. There are so many combinations that... well... hard to attribute anything to all of them.

[RJMason]

I recently switched to GB mouthpieces a few months ago and they definitely have a sound. I like SwissTBone’s adjectives, very similar to how I feel about them.

Before that, I cycled through several modern CNC mouthpieces that are more efficient than the hand made Greg Black. For certain purposes and in certain trombones with vintage quirks the CNC stuff can really help. But the GB pieces (I have 2) just produce a more robust and “mature” sound to my ears. It’s a trade off, but I’m closer to the concept I’m after.

I am in my Yamaha/Greg Black era and it’s a really wonderful sound, I think the mouthpiece gives a certain life and color to the clear Yamaha fundamental, a nice combo.

My only complaint is that there is a certain “latency” in articulation with the GB pieces that I don’t get with a piece like Patrick or AR Resonance.

Hoping to visit GB later this month to see if I can find the best of both worlds, wish me luck! lol

[Burgerbob]

I just got another one for bass, after not playing any for a couple years. Yup... instantly recognizable.

[Fridge]

If you think there’s too many mids and lows, you can get the light weight versions. Or send it to Ken Titmus and him him shave some weight off. Easy fixes.

Fridge

[drbucher]

A mouthpiece's distinctive sound could be due to the proprietary curves inside leading to and away from the throat.

[Bonearzt]

IMHO my switch to Greg Black was not about the sound, but about the efficiency!
Went from a Bach 1G to a Black 1G and was amazed how much more easily it played!!

I know some of it is the GBs are slightly larger, and I eventually went to a 1.25G
But the ease of playing sealed the deal!

[claf]

I this the time to say Back in Black, I hit the sack?
On my large bore, I'm going back and forth between a DE 103N/F+ and a GB 4G-5G, and while I prefer the sound of the DE, I feel more secure playing the GB.
Same thing on the small bore, the 4C feels more secure than the 103N/C+.

I'm wondering if I should try a GB 1.5G to replace my Symington 1.5, bit it's an expensive trial.

[blast]

I've had a lot of GBs over the years....but then I've had a lot of mouthpieces over the years. Both of our tenor players use GB pieces, so I recently bought one into work. The principal far preferred it, describing it as more compact and closer to their sound. I suppose I'm giving it a go then....

[mrdeacon]

I’ve been spending a lot of time of a Greg Black 1 1/2G with a Delrin rim and I’m really loving the piece. It’s not a Mount Vernon but it’s sure ticking all the boxes I want out of a mouthpiece. I’m really curious to try a 2G and a 1 7/16th.

[pfrancis]

I recently switched to GB mouthpieces a few months ago and they definitely have a sound. … the GB pieces (I have 2) just produce a more robust and “mature” sound to my ears. It’s a trade off, but I’m closer to the concept I’m after.
I am in my Yamaha/Greg Black era and it’s a really wonderful sound, I think the mouthpiece gives a certain life and color to the clear Yamaha fundamental, a nice combo. …
Hoping to visit GB later this month to see if I can find the best of both worlds, wish me luck! lol

^^What did you find worked on your Yamahas? I have played GB for decades on my Shires .547, havent found a small bore piece that works for me yet. Fingers crossed you are playing something actually custom, as the rim size on small pieces is my limiting factor generally - prefer no smaller than 5g/Elliott 101 sized rims and would love approximately 3g/Elliott 104 equivalents.

IMHO my switch to Greg Black was not about the sound, but about the efficiency!
Went from a Bach 1G to a Black 1G and was amazed how much more easily it played!! …

Funny, I have never thought of them as efficient, but they fit me/my playing best. To simplify my perspective on efficient vs less efficient mouthpieces: There are ones that want you to blow at the instrument (efficient) and let it do the work, and others that require blowing through the instrument leaving the player to do the work. I just grabbed a GB 1 1/8 to compare to a Doug Yeo and its very similar but with that GB sound!

[Kbiggs]

Interesting question. I think there is a range of sounds and timbres associated with any particular maker like Shires, Edwards, Bach, Conn, Lätzch, etc., trombones, just like there is a range of sounds and timbres associated with violins like Stradivarius, Guarneri, Klotz, etc., guitars like Fender, Rickenbacker, etc. Bach mouthpieces tend to have a range of sounds associated with them, as do Elliott, Monette, Marcinkiewicz, Griego, etc.

There’s also a range of response (the feedback to the player) that tend to go along with them. “Efficiency” is very subjective—I’m not sure what it means in this context. If efficiency means consistent timbre throughout the range, ditto response, ditto dynamics, and the ability to change any of those depending on the musical needs, and a good sound out in the back of the hall as well as up front, then my Griego Markey 87 is much more “efficient” than my Greg Black 1 5/8 (similar sizes and depths).

These characteristics reflect conscious choices by the maker. They choose a particular rim shape, cup depth and shape, entrance to the throat, throat size, cylindrical vs. a shaped throat, etc., all to go along with their particular concept of sound.

Playing on a particular mouthpiece, it’s relatively easy to tell whether you’re playing a GB, Griego, Elliott, etc. Listening out in a hall, I think it would be very difficult to tell what kind of mouthpiece someone is playing.

[RJMason]

I use 4 GB pieces: one is a NY Legend 4M (based off the old Giardenelli 4M, 6.75C sized) for lead and pop stuff. Also 2 6C L’s for more chamber, solo, all around. Still bites but not as bright, rounder sound. These two were made 8 years apart and they play slightly differently. I prefer the older one for solo and newer for ensemble. This is really splitting hairs, but yeah there’s a micro difference.

Lastly a custom small piece with more of a Bach 4 kind of profile. This one I use exclusively for studio work when I need to play low octave parts or doubles with my small or medium horns w f.

I also really liked the NY Legend 4D which is a bit deeper cup, but since I already had the other two didn’t think I needed it. Maybe a custom piece in my future…I definitely have ideas.

I highly recommend making a trip to the shop!!!

[RustBeltBass]

I am not sure if the OP was referencing me or someone else, but I at some point described a "GB sound" as something that sets them apart from all other makers.

I thought about this for a bit and would like to change the term to "GB feedback". What I mean by this is that the sound feels so different in the moment I make it. I do not think I could point out any (!) mouthpiece maker from a blind listening test (at least not brass) but if I had to "blind play" mouthpieces I think I would feel which of them the GB was. The key term for me would be "density", although this might not be the best way to describe it.

[BrianJohnston]

Greg Blacks = Dark, thick, round, full

I don’t know many other mouthpieces that can out do the Greg Black in those 4 descriptive words.

[mrdeacon]

I am not sure if the OP was referencing me or someone else, but I at some point described a "GB sound" as something that sets them apart from all other makers.

I thought about this for a bit and would like to change the term to "GB feedback". What I mean by this is that the sound feels so different in the moment I make it. I do not think I could point out any (!) mouthpiece maker from a blind listening test (at least not brass) but if I had to "blind play" mouthpieces I think I would feel which of them the GB was. The key term for me would be "density", although this might not be the best way to describe it.

I think feedback is a great way to describe it! I especially feel this way when I use the medium weight pieces.