TromboneChat

Besides Arban/Alessi, which technical book would you choose. Say for an amateur that is about early college level, to practice from every practice, and not have to go through a bunch of books to increase your technicality. I play from my song books for the fun stuff, but the technical stuff is either too boring or to advanced, or it does not emphasize the warm ups, long tones, slide techniques, or the things that I need to keep getting better without having to go to multiple books or make up my own. I notice the gains from playing technique books like Arbans or Borgini(sp), Rochut, Kopprasch, etc. I am taking lessons but it seems that most brass instructors seem to have a one size fits all approach.

Mantia "The Trombone Virtuoso". Available for free on IMSLP. Covers a lot of the stuff Arban's doesn't (especially clefs).

The Bible - Brad Edwards Lip Slurs

Hard call between Brad Edwards Lip Slurs and Brad Edwards Trombone Craft. Totally incredible and quite comprehensive book.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:00 am Mantia "The Trombone Virtuoso". Available for free on IMSLP. Covers a lot of the stuff Arban's doesn't (especially clefs).

I'm really enjoying this book! Working my way through it now. I prefer this 100% over Arban. Wish I had discovered it decades ago. The patterns are excellent for trombone. I also like the clef treatment.

--Andy in OKC

afugate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 10:38 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:00 am Mantia "The Trombone Virtuoso". Available for free on IMSLP. Covers a lot of the stuff Arban's doesn't (especially clefs).

I'm really enjoying this book! Working my way through it now. I prefer this 100% over Arban. Wish I had discovered it decades ago. The patterns are excellent for trombone. I also like the clef treatment.

--Andy in OKC

When I was in High School my teacher made me work from Blazhevich (now available for free on IMSLP as "School for Trombone"). Blazhevich as clef studies was a tough chew as a first introduction. When I discovered Mantia I realized I should have learned clefs from there before moving on to Blazhevich.

We tend to pooh-pooh Mantia in light of newer books, but his method was a nice step up from the Rubanks before you move to really tough stuff like Bitsch.

Mantia is good, and also LaFosse wrote 3 volumes that really cover a lot of ground. I wouldn't get stuck in one book. Arbans for intervals, Marsteller for lip slurs, Kopprasch for clefs, Bitsch for time and rhythm, Rochut for phrasing, Rochut book 3 for range and key signatures and fluid ornamentation and fast notes.

I'm with Hyperbolica on this one........there really is not a book that is an "all-encompassing" method for technique. While many of the books mentioned have strengths, we can certainly find shortcomings in ALL of them.

I think that a more important topic is HOW we use certain books. For example, one of my college teachers made me play all of the exercises in the first section of the Arban's book in the "opposite" major key (B-flat became B Major, etc....) and also in the natural, harmonic and melodic minor keys for the original pitch center and the "opposite" sharp side. After I got good at that, he made me do all of those things (flat key, sharp key, major and all minors) in tenor clef. Essentially, each exercise could be played in 16 different tonalities.

This particular approach is not necessarily applicable to all technique exercises, but there are certainly a variety of approaches that can be used for similar exercises. Think about the different ways that the Rochut etudes can be played: bass clef down an octave, tenor clef, tenor clef down an octave, alto clef (tricky!), alto clef down an octave (easier on the chops but tough on the brain!), flip-flop majors and minors, etc..... When you do these things, you really need to break down many things in the music at a deeper level.

No copouts yo. Ya gotta pick one book. That's the fun of the topic.

What is your one, single, most useful book?

Arbans (Trumpet version). It can easily be played in different clefs/keys, and you can choose to play the exercises shorter, longer, louder softer as well as in different registers to work on different aspects of your playing. The interval section, for instance is a good flexibility study at a faster tempo, and is a great study for consistent sound if you play them slow, sustained, and forte/fortissimo. Lots of stuff has dual uses.

Jim Scott

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:48 pm No copouts yo. Ya gotta pick one book. That's the fun of the topic.

What is your one, single, most useful book?

If I had to choose a book that I think REALLY advances a player’s technical skills, I would choose the 26 Melodic Sequences by Blazhevich. However, I am very aware of their downfall…..repetitive rhythms.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:14 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:48 pm No copouts yo. Ya gotta pick one book. That's the fun of the topic.

What is your one, single, most useful book?

If I had to choose a book that I think REALLY advances a player’s technical skills, I would choose the 26 Melodic Sequences by Blazhevich. However, I am very aware of their downfall…..repetitive rhythms.

Re: Blaz, I checked out IMSLP. Seems to spend a lot of time in lower to mid ranges.

I never said Blazhevich was my choice for the question at hand.

Note that there really isn't one book that is all things for all people. Arban was attempting to be this and look at all the additional books we all accumulated.

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:56 am Besides Arban/Alessi, which technical book would you choose. Say for an amateur that is about early college level, to practice from every practice, and not have to go through a bunch of books to increase your technicality. I play from my song books for the fun stuff, but the technical stuff is either too boring or to advanced, or it does not emphasize the warm ups, long tones, slide techniques, or the things that I need to keep getting better without having to go to multiple books or make up my own. I notice the gains from playing technique books like Arbans or Borgini(sp), Rochut, Kopprasch, etc. I am taking lessons but it seems that most brass instructors seem to have a one size fits all approach.

The book that fits your requirements is Arban. It’s all the things you are asking for. Why don’t you want to use Arban?

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:56 pm

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:56 am Besides Arban/Alessi, which technical book would you choose. Say for an amateur that is about early college level, to practice from every practice, and not have to go through a bunch of books to increase your technicality. I play from my song books for the fun stuff, but the technical stuff is either too boring or to advanced, or it does not emphasize the warm ups, long tones, slide techniques, or the things that I need to keep getting better without having to go to multiple books or make up my own. I notice the gains from playing technique books like Arbans or Borgini(sp), Rochut, Kopprasch, etc. I am taking lessons but it seems that most brass instructors seem to have a one size fits all approach.

The book that fits your requirements is Arban. It’s all the things you are asking for. Why don’t you want to use Arban?

A reminder that Alex Iles has a “how to use Arban” guide on his page.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:56 pm

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:56 am Besides Arban/Alessi, which technical book would you choose. Say for an amateur that is about early college level, to practice from every practice, and not have to go through a bunch of books to increase your technicality. I play from my song books for the fun stuff, but the technical stuff is either too boring or to advanced, or it does not emphasize the warm ups, long tones, slide techniques, or the things that I need to keep getting better without having to go to multiple books or make up my own. I notice the gains from playing technique books like Arbans or Borgini(sp), Rochut, Kopprasch, etc. I am taking lessons but it seems that most brass instructors seem to have a one size fits all approach.

The book that fits your requirements is Arban. It’s all the things you are asking for. Why don’t you want to use Arban?

Because I am an ex-Tuba player that really never studied technique. I stopped playing 12 years ago because of getting upper dentures. I was gifted with a lot of natural talent, but find technical practice tedious, I can sight read anything up to intermediate college music. Now that I am playing trombone in my sixties, just started two months ago and have played two concerts with the local community concert band,already. I have started lessons but find Arbans confusing, even after reading Bolvin and Iles, and all the posts I can find here.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:29 pm

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:14 pm

If I had to choose a book that I think REALLY advances a player’s technical skills, I would choose the 26 Melodic Sequences by Blazhevich. However, I am very aware of their downfall…..repetitive rhythms.

Re: Blaz, I checked out IMSLP. Seems to spend a lot of time in lower to mid ranges.

My Blazhevich recommendation is not his “Clef Studies” book, it is the lesser known “26 Melodic Sequences.” I feel that the “26 Melodic Sequences” are designed for a more advanced player. I usually don’t assign the “26 Melodic Sequences” to my students until they have made it at least 3/4 the way through the Blazhevich “Clef Studies” book and/or 3/4 the way through the Kopprasch studies.

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:55 am

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:56 pm

The book that fits your requirements is Arban. It’s all the things you are asking for. Why don’t you want to use Arban?

Because I am a Tuba player that really never studied technique. I was gifted with a lot of natural talent, but find technical practice tedious, I can sight read anything up to intermediate college music. Now that I am playing trombone in my sixties, just started two months ago and have played two concerts with the local community concert band, I am starting lessons but find Arbans confusing, even after reading Bolvin and Iles.

Gotcha. It can be confusing since its such a big book. Your teacher can help I’m sure. I’d stick some post it notes in like bookmarks so you can find the ones you are working on quickly. Focus on the first 50 pages or so and the “art of phrasing” melodies at the end. Skip the middle for now.

You could try doing all the ones that end in 0 today (10, 20, 30, etc) and all the ones that end in 1 the next day (1, 11, 22, etc), then 2 the following day, 3 the day after that, etc etc etc…

You’ve got to find a way to make the reward of gradual outweigh the boredom of repetitive/tedious work. That’s my 2 cents, anyway.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:11 am

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:55 am

Because I am a Tuba player that really never studied technique. I was gifted with a lot of natural talent, but find technical practice tedious, I can sight read anything up to intermediate college music. Now that I am playing trombone in my sixties, just started two months ago and have played two concerts with the local community concert band, I am starting lessons but find Arbans confusing, even after reading Bolvin and Iles.

Gotcha. It can be confusing since its such a big book. Your teacher can help I’m sure. I’d stick some post it notes in like bookmarks so you can find the ones you are working on quickly. Focus on the first 50 pages or so and the “art of phrasing” melodies at the end. Skip the middle for now.

You could try doing all the ones that end in 0 today (10, 20, 30, etc) and all the ones that end in 1 the next day (1, 11, 22, etc), then 2 the following day, 3 the day after that, etc etc etc…

You’ve got to find a way to make the reward of gradual outweigh the boredom of repetitive/tedious work. That’s my 2 cents, anyway.

Thank you, that is helpful. Since you are an educator, have you ever had a student that can show up for rehearsal able to read any music you put in front of them but you can tell they do not practice? Just trying to find motivation. Also, I think the biggest problem is the frustration I feel because I have had a very difficult time reading any music with my transitions glasses. I have a pair I used for sports with the whole lenses having only the astigmatism prescription, but that has only helped about 50%. I have tried tablets, magnifiers, enlarging the music, which with the Arbans is cost prohibitive. I am going to an Optometrist soon to see about glasses just for the music.

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:29 am

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:11 am

Gotcha. It can be confusing since its such a big book. Your teacher can help I’m sure. I’d stick some post it notes in like bookmarks so you can find the ones you are working on quickly. Focus on the first 50 pages or so and the “art of phrasing” melodies at the end. Skip the middle for now.

You could try doing all the ones that end in 0 today (10, 20, 30, etc) and all the ones that end in 1 the next day (1, 11, 22, etc), then 2 the following day, 3 the day after that, etc etc etc…

You’ve got to find a way to make the reward of gradual outweigh the boredom of repetitive/tedious work. That’s my 2 cents, anyway.

Thank you, that is helpful. Since you are an educator, have you ever had a student that can show up for rehearsal able to read any music you put in front of them but you can tell they do not practice? Just trying to find motivation. Also, I think the biggest problem is the frustration I feel because I have had a very difficult time reading any music with my transitions glasses. I have a pair I used for sports with the whole lenses having only the astigmatism prescription, but that has only helped about 50%. I have tried tablets, magnifiers, enlarging the music, which with the Arbans is cost prohibitive. I am going to an Optometrist soon to see about glasses just for the music.

The glasses problem can be really frustrating. I think there is actually another thread going right now on this topic.

The exercises in the first bit Arban aren’t really hard when it comes to getting the notes, but they are excellent for developing the next stage of awareness of time, tuning, and tone (the three Ts). We all start trying to “hit” the right notes at the right time. Arban is a good playground to start really thinking about articulation (note shape), quality and stability of tone, release, and consistency from note to note. Can you match four notes in a scale? How about in an arpeggio? What happens to all this when you have to play a bunch of staccato eights followed by a sustained quarter note? So yes, students regularly come to lessons and play all the notes, but when it comes to how they are playing the notes there is always room for improvement.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:53 am

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:29 am

Thank you, that is helpful. Since you are an educator, have you ever had a student that can show up for rehearsal able to read any music you put in front of them but you can tell they do not practice? Just trying to find motivation. Also, I think the biggest problem is the frustration I feel because I have had a very difficult time reading any music with my transitions glasses. I have a pair I used for sports with the whole lenses having only the astigmatism prescription, but that has only helped about 50%. I have tried tablets, magnifiers, enlarging the music, which with the Arbans is cost prohibitive. I am going to an Optometrist soon to see about glasses just for the music.

The glasses problem can be really frustrating. I think there is actually another thread going right now on this topic.

The exercises in the first bit Arban aren’t really hard when it comes to getting the notes, but they are excellent for developing the next stage of awareness of time, tuning, and tone (the three Ts). We all start trying to “hit” the right notes at the right time. Arban is a good playground to start really thinking about articulation (note shape), quality and stability of tone, release, and consistency from note to note. Can you match four notes in a scale? How about in an arpeggio? What happens to all this when you have to play a bunch of staccato eights followed by a sustained quarter note? So yes, students regularly come to lessons and play all the notes, but when it comes to how they are playing the notes there is always room for improvement.

Thank you. What you say is probably the most helpful I have received. I will bring these points up with my instructor.

Good luck and happy practicing!

The Kama Sutra.

I had a band director in college back in the eighties that happened to be a trombonist. He once shocked me when he told me that Arban's was a good book, but not a good method book. He suggested to me that I get a copy V. Cornette, which I did and liked better. Looking back, I now agree with him. My impression of Arban's is that it's like trying to learn singing in English by studying the Encyclopedia Britanica. Don't get me wrong, lots of good exercises, but it requires a good knowledgeable teacher to guide you through. Currently, I am reading through a copy of "The Well Tempered Trombonist," and I find it good for ear development.

Lip Slurs (Brad Edwards)...it never leaves my music stand!

The Earnest Clarke Method is my go-to for serious students at the intermediate level. It progresses through all the key signatures (8-10 pages on each); the etudes are tuneful and fun to play.
The Mantia book is another favorite, and has already been mentioned. It is one level up from the Clarke book, and introduces clefs.
On the same level as Mantia, there is also the Otto Langey Method for slide trombone. I just got a new copy from (Gordon) Cherry Classics, and it is just as good and fun to play as I remember from my high school years.