Affect Tbone Tone and Response

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SubK
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:08 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Affect Tbone Tone and Response

Post by SubK »

Maybe this tweak is interesting for one or the other...

What is it about?
Affecting the sound / response of my trombone.

I achieved this by attaching small strips of lead foil to the outer slide of the trombone.

Why?
I have a Kühnl & Hoyer 527 GF. Great in almost all aspects: production quality, response, ergonomics, etc. However, I was missing a little core in the sound. The sound is nice, but ... well, a little edge is just missing. I once tried a K&H 134 GF, the previous model. The sound was more to my liking. The difference is that the K&H 527 GF has a nickel silver outer slide.

The Approach
Now my thought was to give the outer slide a modified vibration behavior with giving it a little more mass, similar to that of a brass slide. I did this by attaching lead tape. The tape is self-adhesive and comes from DIY and is usually used for Tiffany windows, mirrors, lamps, etc..

I started with a 1 cm wide strip per outer slide tube, placed about in the middle around the tube. This first test clearly showed me that there was a lot going on and a lot possible, the response and sound changed clearly.

I then made a good 100+ attempts with the size and the placement of the strips. By the way, the strips are quite easy to remove and reattach several dozen times because of the adhesive glue.

The result
In the end, I now use a 0.5 x 1 cm strip across the upper outer slide tube, 5-6 cm below the bell rim. In addition, a 0.5 x 2 cm strip across on the lower outer slide tube, about 9 cm below the upper strip. The effect of this arrangement is that the sound on the K&H 527 has taken on that little more core or sonority I aimed for. The lightness of response is a bit reduced, but that can be adjusted individually using the size and position of the lead tape.

A few experiences of mine from the tests
If the strip is placed at the level of the bell rim or higher (i.e. towards the mouthpiece): Effect as with a heavytop mouthpiece. Supports the treble very well, but at the expense of flexibility.
Using only one strip does not show any positive effects.
Applying the strips lengthwise has only negative, dampening effects.
The challenge for me was to figure out the placement of the strips relative to each other on the outer slide.

Thoughts
I think the vast majority of instruments don't need this tweak. I have another trombone, a Rath R100. I tried the stripes on that trombone as well. Changes are there, but no real gain in the overall behavior. So I took the stripes off again on the R100. But it was a lot of fun for me to tinker and try out a little under the hood of the instruments. In the end, the little lead strips weigh less than 1 gram and yet have such an effect, amazing. A trombone has so many parameters that the instrument makers and the players can turn.

So I have now saved 1800€ on a brass slide. Or the expenses for heavy top mouthpieces. Invest: 10 € for lead tape. :good:
none4u
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Re: Affect Tbone Tone and Response

Post by none4u »

Wild
baileyman
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Re: Affect Tbone Tone and Response

Post by baileyman »

This is a great approach to addressing all those concerns about materials and strange resonances, instead of swapping parts or horns or finish coatings. There may be more to do with respect to bells, brace mass, balance, etc. The well-affected horn may have stuff stuck to it here and there. Who knows?
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harrisonreed
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Re: Affect Tbone Tone and Response

Post by harrisonreed »

I bet the does change the response a lot. Do you have a picture of your final setup?
SubK
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:08 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Affect Tbone Tone and Response

Post by SubK »

harrisonreed wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 6:32 am I bet the does change the response a lot. Do you have a picture of your final setup?
Here you go.

It is not very impressive to say the least... Anyway, as you can see now I only have a small 0.5x0.5 cm on the upper tube, 8 cm under the bell rim and 11 cm lower on the lower tube the 1x0.5 cm. With this arrangement of the strips I achieved a nice core added to the sound while the response is not too punchy.
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